Proposal to disband ELoA and ISAF

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

Dear users,

please note that we have a new forum now. You'll find it here.

The old forum is set to read-only mode now.

Your Ikariam Team

  • Proposal to disband ELoA and ISAF

    It seems the mega-alliances are winding down.

    I propose we disband both ELoA and ISAF. Members of those mega-alliances may of course still have their own treaties amongst themselves.

    As appointed speaker for ELoA, I offer to disband ELoA is ISAF disbands as well.

    Remaining leader representatives of ELoA and ISAF please voice your opinion here.

    As it stands now:

    ELoA consists of: ARES, Titan, NT-HK, NED, VrG, JmSpl
    ISAF consists of: CCC, 300, RgNrk, DiG, NMA, FeC
  • I would not worry about that at all, with VKG the founders or initiators of the ISAF leaving it or turning your backs on it (however any one wishes to look at it or perceive it), it ceased to exist in my opinion. So the way I see it we all stand alone and on our own. The Mega alliance is now gone and dissolved the moment VKGl left, (in my opinion of course) which honestly is a great relief to me. It was going no where anyway.

    And I may be mistaken, but I do recall POFF being the leading force in the creation of ELoA, and with them withdrawing from it as well says the same thing, It now longer exists.

    This is no official declaration by any means, its just an opinion.
  • It certainly does seem like the members of the two mega alliances have lost interest in being together. They havent seemed to be playing very well together anymore considering events like the dispute between M-A, DiG and Ares over HT-MK and then VKG leaving ISAF and attacking CCC. Considering that the main alliances in both have left, I would say they have pretty much fallen apart and gone their separate ways, though not officially.
  • I am in support of this, and I know several members of ELoA have thought along these same lines for a while now. Members of ISAF should know that the ELoA exists for only one reason now, because some members of ISAF have abused their fellow alliances to sort of punch another kid in the face and then run to their big brother. As long as this is possible, some feel it necessary to have their own big brother. And as many have observed, this just leads to a stalemate which makes it much more difficult to have normal wars.

    I also think that this has been a source of much dishonesty in wars (although not all of it). So many war declarations in recent months have started off sounding like "we were just on our way back from reading to the kids at the cancer hospital when these horrible villains attacked us for no reason." This kind of thing is only necessary when you want to keep their allies out of it and retain the option of bringing in yours. If ISAF and ELoA are dissolved, hopefully people will no longer find this necessary.
  • Samus wrote:

    Members of ISAF should know that the ELoA exists for only one reason now, because some members of ISAF have abused their fellow alliances to sort of punch another kid in the face and then run to their big brother.
    Actually...just a little historical clarification since God's Of War [GOW] was among the first couple alliances to join ELoA.

    ELoA was originally formed to be a defensive measure against "perceived" threats from the League of 3 (PMU, CCC & 300) and the League of Conquerors (VKG, CCC & AoE)...both of which were disband about the beginning of October 2008.

    Titan originally declined the offer to join ELoA, but later applied for membership after both VKG and CCC declared war against them...and though it was originally a requirement of ELoA that no alliance currently at war could join, Titan was accepted anyways.

    The acceptance of Titan lead ELoA then down the path of World War 1 and also lead to AFP alliance leaving ELoA because of the perception of some that the leadership of ELoA was a little quick to go to war. World War 1 officially ran from September 13, 2008 - October 2, 2008. ISAF was not formed until October 12, 2008.



    Back to the purpose of this thread, Ragnarok (formerly GOW) has been discussing it's role within ISAF and departing from ISAF for some time now....going back almost 3 months (you may verify this with AID and POFF if that's required)...but the matter was never finalized (and was placed on hold) when merger talks began with Chaotic Legion almost 6 weeks ago.

    Once the merger was completed, the issue was again opened for discussion amongst the leadership from which the united opinion was that the current super alliances no longer serve their original purpose and are archaic relics of an ended era. However, VKG suddenly chose to leave ISAF before Ragnarok was able to approach them on this very subject.

    In any event, Ragnarok supports the dissolving of the super alliances and regardless of what occurs with them and to that end, have already decided to "officially" leave ISAF.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by morphius ().

  • The history of ELoA is simple.



    Wulfy of Ares and I were discussing a merger of our alliances in order that we might have a chance to defend against VKG, but neither of us had enough diplomacy points to take the other alliance.



    ELoA was formed by us so that we could still benefit from a joint defence. CCC were invited to join us but instead ran to VKG with stories of a league of alliances intent on destroying VKG. From this the league of conquerors was born. PMU were also asked to join us but declined at that time if I remember correctly. Although I'm sure they did join us at a later date when the league of three disbanded.



    Titans were not allowed to join ELoA while they were still at war, they applied and then waited until the war ended. This took a while as they had been under constant attack for a very long time, with new wars being declared one after another.



    My memory is not so great that I can remember everything that happened, and as I am no longer a member of ELoA I cannot check, but I think AFP left because of some concerns over the wording of the league treaty that they were required to sign.



    I have no regrets over the forming of ELoA. It was a great undertaking and a real challenge to form and keep working. As I'm sure the leaders of ISAF will agree, ensuring that several different alliances run by different people from different countries find a way to work together can be fun at times. Poff made some great friends during our time there and also fell out with other alliances regularly. Thankfully none of those disagreements were so serious that we went to war.



    We left primarily because ELoA was formed to be the good guys and the rules were very restrictive. Diplomacy took over from warfare and it became almost impossible to do anything without upsetting someone, somewhere. That is the only reason, so all those nice people who heard otherwise, heard wrong.



    Our traditional enemies also turned to diplomacy for many of the problems that in the past would have resulted in a good fight. That was the original aim of ELoA, but it wasn't how I had imagined it and caused an almost constant stalemate. Thus proving the old addage 'Be careful what you wish for, it may come true'.



    I still believe that agreements between alliances offer an exciting aspect within the game, but it is good to see that things are being shaken up a bit. Perhaps things have changed enough to stop the droves of experienced players leaving the game. At least now the game is again unpredictable and I find myself looking to the future with anticipation.



    Praise the almighty Offler



    Det.
    Detritus - Leader and Servant

    Offlers Titans.
  • As much as ISAF helped C L, I am still inclined to say its time has passed. The trouble with ISAF (and ELOA, no doubt) is two fold.

    The first is that a group of alliances has to meet an arbitrary code of behavior with each other. As is the case with VKG and CCC, an natural frustration usually develops if you cannot let it out. This is kind of the way siblings fight with each other, and then are fine again for a while. The problem is, diplomacy is the usual method of solving problems in such a group, and it is not always the most effective method (though I think it should always be the first one tried).

    The second is the source of that frustration. The other groups and members of the groups may not act in a way that your alliance feels places it in a good light. This usually means things like declaring war when you feel diplomacy should prevail or even using diplomacy when you feel war should prevail. It is also the way non-aligned players and other alliances are treated.

    So, I feel that the best solution is to forge bonds based on mutual friendships and interests. Without a group to compete directly against, there is no real need for a coalition.
  • I agree with you AZGreentea!

    Coalitions isn´t needed anymore.

    And secondly instead of forming coalitions, alliances who during times of war and peace have forged a strong friendship should either have their own friendly agreements or simply merge to officially proove their friendship if they so see fit.

    Coalitions themselves just make everything diplomatic, and removes a lot of the military aspects of the game, which still is the main game feature (opinion).

    Disband the coalitions and let Eta get a fresh start!
  • The discussions so far seem more from ISAF side and few from ELOA side.

    However,
    DiG members feel that ISAF has not stood neither its purpose nor the test of time, and it should be disbanded, for it lay just on paper.
    The presence of ISAF has only resulted in world wars, instead of preventing them. As such, its better not to be a part of it than be its part.

    But the condition for it is that members from ELOA should agree to disband their organization as well simultaneously.

    All alliances seem in favor of going their own way and so is DiG.

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Diplomat
    Alliance =DiG=
  • Just to be clear regarding "purposes" of the two current super alliances, ELoA was initially created to prevent the top two alliances at that time from joining together to wage war against a single alliance. The purpose of ELoA was to provide defensive support for alliances against superior numbers.

    There had been super alliances previous to ELoA and ISAF on this server...they just were not the size these two grew into.

    ISAF was created after World War 1 and in response to the size that ELoA had grown, but ISAF was not formed for the purpose of preventing any world war. In fact, the only purpose ever stated for ISAF was so that 'allies could attack and defend as one' in a superior manner.

    And yes, there's been little contribution so far from the member alliances of ELoA.
  • Jolly joined ELOA as many others did, to unite against the really annoying Allamir and KingBlunder. However I must admit, I came to like Allamir in the end. He obviously matured whilst playing the game.
    Jolly just wasnt big or strong enough to stand up to either VKG or CC at that time. They had the habit of wardeccing an Alliance then the other would join in "To support our Brothers". This normally meant the end of the war. Sorry cant rememebr the 3rd Alliance that ususally jumped on the bandwagon. I think its been mentioned in a previous post.
    As far as we were concerned, ELOA wasnt there to prevent a WW, it was there to make sure that a WW started if one of our alliances was attacked.

    The problem was, some alliances thought that peace could be maintained through the existance of ELOA alone. In RL, a Nuclear Deterent works because a WW3 would mean the end of the world. But this is a game, 2 weeks after a WW, everything you had prior to the War, has returned. It took ages to decide anything in ELOA. A committee would be formed, to discuss a meeting, to decide who to appont to a board that would then meet to talk about the possibility of supporting an ELOA Aliance under attack. This proposal would then be posponed til the next meeting Alright, thats a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the drift.

    Whereas in Jolly we had a simple philosphy: If An ELOA Alliance was attacked by an ISAF Alliance and couldnt handle it, we joined in. This was after we determined that the ELOA Alliance didnt start it Jolly always advocated immediate action. After WW2 we decided that it was best for Jolly to leave.

    A deterent is only a deterent if the othe side believes you will use it
  • You know, I am fan of a certain US congressman who often says, "you need to understand the history behind the issue before you attempt to solve it." I'm going to share a bit of the history behind this issue with you, because I agree with Ron Paul.

    [February 19th, 2009, 7:38pm ST] VKG declared war on PrG. PrG is a recognized member of ELoA at this time, the war seems to be accepted as fair by both ISAF and ELoA as a 1vs1.

    [March 7th 2009, 3:34pm] The war between VKG and PrG ends.

    [March 14th 2009, 1:46pm ST] CCC announces it's new leader. The first duty was ending the war with Wolf through diplomatic communication.

    [March 18th 2009, 1:08pm ST] CCC declared against with HT-MK. HT-MK had no alignment at this time. This action is seen as one of the more successful joint ISAF-ELoA operations, where members of both factions fought side-by-side against HT-MK.

    [April 28th 2009, 4:30am ST] VKG2, VKG's then wing alliance, declares war on PrG.

    [April 28th 2009, 8:59am ST] VKG join their wing in declaring war against PrG. This causes an unrest as many ELoA members view this as two ISAF alliances ganging up on an ELoA member. It is also noted that VKG declared war on PrG the month before, and looked to be bullying PrG.

    [May 2nd 2009, 10:04am ST] Jolly Alliance Vs VKG and VKG2. Jolly is a recognized member of ELoA at this time. Four days, one hour, five minutes since VKG's declarations against PrG Jolly became first ELoA member to support PrG.

    [May 3rd 2009, 1:05am ST] Recognizing the escalating tensions between VKG and the ELoA faction, CCC ends their successful campaign against HT-MK on it's 46th day. This marks the end of CCC's cooperative involvement with ELoA members.

    [May 3rd 2009, 8:14pm ST] Praise Offler (POFF) vs Vikings (VKG). POFF is a recognized member of ELoA at this time, second to support PrG.

    [May 3rd 2009, 8:23pm ST] J4mROcK Loyals vs Vikings (VKG). JmSpl is a recognized member of ELoA at this time, third to support PrG.

    [May 3rd 2009, 9:43pm ST] Metal Alliance (M-A) vs Vikings (VKG). M-A is a recognized member of ELoA at this time, fourth to support PrG.

    **I am only listing ISAF from this point on.**

    [May 4th, 2009, 1:02am ST] In response to their respective war declarations against VKG, CCC declared war against Jolly, M-A, POFF, JmSpl and PrG, becoming the first ISAF member to officially enter WWII in support of VKG.

    [May 6th 2009, 3:56pm ST] GOW vs M-A, PrG & JmSpl. Second ISAF to support VKG.

    [May 7th 2009, 1:36pm ST] Spartan Power vs Titans. Third ISAF to support VKG.

    [May 8th 2009, 8:20am ST] C L -vs- IFM, NED, - R -, Titans, J4mR0cK Loyals, POFF, ARES, Jolly, M-A. Fourth ISAF to support VKG.

    [May 9th 2009, 5:13am ST] DiG vs IFM, NED, - R -, Titans, J4mR0cK, ARES, M-A. Fifth ISAF to support VKG.

    [May 11th 2009, 3:48pm ST] The Iron Circle vs POFF. Sixth ISAF to support VKG.

    [May 13th 2009, 2:29am ST] NMA V's IFM, NED, - R -, Titans, J4mR0cK, ARES, M-A. Last ISAF to support VKG.


    It took days for the rest of ISAF to back VKG after ELoA mobilized against them. It is of course possible that CCC loved VKG more than any other ISAF member did, so we were fastest to help our precious comrades. Look what it earned us...

    Anyhow, further along my point: History tells a tale that CCC was more eager to support it's allies, everyone else seemed to be on a slower train. Recently CCC was betrayed by ISAF member VKG. I would like to note that help never arrived.

    The ISAF faction has nothing to offer CCC.

    The CCC Alliance hereby withdraws from this joke of a support system. That is all.
  • morphius wrote:

    there's been little contribution so far from the member alliances of ELoA.
    As speaker for ELoA I brought this topic up as we have been discussing this inside of ELoA and thought it was time to get it out in the public.

    Though the mega-alliances are essentially already disbanded, I created this thread to just make things "official".

    Here's a recap of what I have so far:

    DiG, CCC, FeC, Rgnk of ISAF in favor of disbanding

    Titans, VrG (I guess I'll speak for VrG here) in favor of disbanding

    We haven't heard from ARES, NT-HK, NED, 300 or NMA

    I'll send a note out to their Diplomats to ask if they can weigh in on this.

    On a side note, although there were some things that were good about the mega-alliances, I feel that their usefulness may have become outdated as the reason for their original creations no longer exists.

    I am sure history will repeat itself and circumstances will cause mega-alliances to pop up again, but for the time being, they are not necessary in my opinion.
  • Hmm, first time I have heard of this... and I don't know if other members of my alliance have heard either.... sounds like each alliance will go its separate ways... so the days of super alliances are over?
  • The mega alliances do seem pointless, considering it's usually a 1v1 war going on. However, I do think that it's useful in getting the wing alliances more experienced. With good communication between the 2 mega alliances, they can get wing alliances of their members to participate in mini-wars that will help out offensive/defensive points of the lower members. That, and it will hasten upgrades done by those members.
  • NetBlues wrote:

    You know, I am fan of a certain US congressman who often says, "you need to understand the history behind the issue before you attempt to solve it." I'm going to share a bit of the history behind this issue with you, because I agree with Ron Paul.

    [February 19th, 2009, 7:38pm ST] VKG declared war on PrG. PrG is a recognized member of ELoA at this time, the war seems to be accepted as fair by both ISAF and ELoA as a 1vs1.

    [March 7th 2009, 3:34pm] The war between VKG and PrG ends.

    [March 14th 2009, 1:46pm ST] CCC announces it's new leader. The first duty was ending the war with Wolf through diplomatic communication.

    [March 18th 2009, 1:08pm ST] CCC declared against with HT-MK. HT-MK had no alignment at this time. This action is seen as one of the more successful joint ISAF-ELoA operations, where members of both factions fought side-by-side against HT-MK.

    [April 28th 2009, 4:30am ST] VKG2, VKG's then wing alliance, declares war on PrG.

    [April 28th 2009, 8:59am ST] VKG join their wing in declaring war against PrG. This causes an unrest as many ELoA members view this as two ISAF alliances ganging up on an ELoA member. It is also noted that VKG declared war on PrG the month before, and looked to be bullying PrG.

    [May 2nd 2009, 10:04am ST] Jolly Alliance Vs VKG and VKG2. Jolly is a recognized member of ELoA at this time. Four days, one hour, five minutes since VKG's declarations against PrG Jolly became first ELoA member to support PrG.

    [May 3rd 2009, 1:05am ST] Recognizing the escalating tensions between VKG and the ELoA faction, CCC ends their successful campaign against HT-MK on it's 46th day. This marks the end of CCC's cooperative involvement with ELoA members.

    [May 3rd 2009, 8:14pm ST] Praise Offler (POFF) vs Vikings (VKG). POFF is a recognized member of ELoA at this time, second to support PrG.

    [May 3rd 2009, 8:23pm ST] J4mROcK Loyals vs Vikings (VKG). JmSpl is a recognized member of ELoA at this time, third to support PrG.

    [May 3rd 2009, 9:43pm ST] Metal Alliance (M-A) vs Vikings (VKG). M-A is a recognized member of ELoA at this time, fourth to support PrG.

    **I am only listing ISAF from this point on.**

    [May 4th, 2009, 1:02am ST] In response to their respective war declarations against VKG, CCC declared war against Jolly, M-A, POFF, JmSpl and PrG, becoming the first ISAF member to officially enter WWII in support of VKG.

    [May 6th 2009, 3:56pm ST] GOW vs M-A, PrG & JmSpl. Second ISAF to support VKG.

    [May 7th 2009, 1:36pm ST] Spartan Power vs Titans. Third ISAF to support VKG.

    [May 8th 2009, 8:20am ST] C L -vs- IFM, NED, - R -, Titans, J4mR0cK Loyals, POFF, ARES, Jolly, M-A. Fourth ISAF to support VKG.

    [May 9th 2009, 5:13am ST] DiG vs IFM, NED, - R -, Titans, J4mR0cK, ARES, M-A. Fifth ISAF to support VKG.

    [May 11th 2009, 3:48pm ST] The Iron Circle vs POFF. Sixth ISAF to support VKG.

    [May 13th 2009, 2:29am ST] NMA V's IFM, NED, - R -, Titans, J4mR0cK, ARES, M-A. Last ISAF to support VKG.


    It took days for the rest of ISAF to back VKG after ELoA mobilized against them. It is of course possible that CCC loved VKG more than any other ISAF member did, so we were fastest to help our precious comrades. Look what it earned us...

    Anyhow, further along my point: History tells a tale that CCC was more eager to support it's allies, everyone else seemed to be on a slower train. Recently CCC was betrayed by ISAF member VKG. I would like to note that help never arrived.

    The ISAF faction has nothing to offer CCC.

    The CCC Alliance hereby withdraws from this joke of a support system. That is all.


    Now lets be fair here...All of this weeks events came at a huge surprise to everyone...Kinda froze everyone in their tracks and it took a little bit to get oriented to the situation. Lets just say I'm sure many alliances would have come to your aid had the war continued. Just sayin.
  • PhoeniX0688 wrote:

    Now lets be fair here...All of this weeks events came at a huge surprise to everyone...Kinda froze everyone in their tracks and it took a little bit to get oriented to the situation. Lets just say I'm sure many alliances would have come to your aid had the war continued. Just sayin.

    I'm sure VKG figured we would gain more support the longer they attacked us, so they withdrew and got away clean with the crime it seems. CCC won't forget, I pray that you all remember history too.
  • First of all I would like to thank Detritus and Morphius for that little piece of ETA history, which is not only important for us but also for all those new players which have started this nice browser game only in 2009.

    In summer 2008 VKG had "four times" the average score of a top ten alliance and was used to attack and pillage everywhere and everybody, thus continually increasing the number of their members, in particolar top score ones, attracted by their power and a promise of a safe heaven. This could have not be obviously tolerated and we contacted all top alliances, CCC included.
    This to explain the main reason of ELOA birth, a mega alliance was necessary simply to survive.

    Now that we finally have a more fair balance between top clans, we too believe that huge coalitions are not still necessary and we can start playing this game hoping with more fun for everybody.

    So lets start a new Era and thanks again to all the old mates and enemies which shared with us that fun experience.


    Wulfy
    ARES leader