Do ARES' Policies Trump Everyone Else's?

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

Dear users,

please note that we have a new forum now. You'll find it here.

The old forum is set to read-only mode now.

Your Ikariam Team

  • Do ARES' Policies Trump Everyone Else's?

    Yesterday an ARES player sent a bunch of spies into one of my towns. I have a policy that if someone spies on me or attacks me then I attack them. With due diligence I contacted ARES letting them know this course of action that would be taken. It turns out ARES has a policy whereby if I attack 1 of their players (who I attacked as per my policy) that 8 or so of them attack me.

    49 rounds later their numbers eventually got the better of me.

    During the attacks the ARES player in question spied on me and attacked me. Wanting to stick to my principles I feel I should respond.

    I discussed with matter with the ARES leader who was most curious. I pointed out that if the ARES player had asked for permission to send in the spies the reaction may have been different. He directed me to the ARES policy saying that in the circumstances, the only course of action was for them to attack me.

    So, the question is, do ARES policies overrule everyone else’s? Can they invite attack then take umbrage at the consequences?
  • Another player trying to be a though guy, which cries and runs whining to the boards when he feels the heat :D

    Maybe you should have talked to your ally Valdez before choosing this path ;)
    Hades: Fighting to keep everything in Order
  • Do you not have it the wrong way round?
    The ARES player in question spied on me then went running to his alliance when he didn't like my reaction.

    I posted to the board to find others' thoughts on ARES following up on their policies and not considering the validity of mine.
  • Wait...

    This is really something to get my head around
    So you finding a spy justifies a full scale attack on a player.
    Yet us responding to an attack on an ARES player is unjustified.

    1) I can smell the hypocrisy from half a world away
    2) If you fail to give us a chance to work things out diplomatically, this is what happens.

    If one of our players has a spy in your town, that's not a normal thing (unless we're at war) - so lets work out why, and a suitable punishment for our player.

    So lets look at our alliance page:
    "If you refuse, ignore our request, mock us, or try to bog us down in wordplay you've blown your chance of a diplomatic solution."

    It's that simple.
    Lets talk diplomatically.
    We're actually quite good at that.

    Or we can do the war thing.
    We're actually extremely good at that too.


    Kindest regards
    Talista
  • MalcConch wrote:

    Yesterday an ARES player sent a bunch of spies into one of my towns. I have a policy that if someone spies on me or attacks me then I attack them. With due diligence I contacted ARES letting them know this course of action that would be taken. It turns out ARES has a policy whereby if I attack 1 of their players (who I attacked as per my policy) that 8 or so of them attack me.

    49 rounds later their numbers eventually got the better of me.

    During the attacks the ARES player in question spied on me and attacked me. Wanting to stick to my principles I feel I should respond.

    I discussed with matter with the ARES leader who was most curious. I pointed out that if the ARES player had asked for permission to send in the spies the reaction may have been different. He directed me to the ARES policy saying that in the circumstances, the only course of action was for them to attack me.

    So, the question is, do ARES policies overrule everyone else’s? Can they invite attack then take umbrage at the consequences?


    To me it sounds like you are saying that your ROE should take precedence over ours.

    To me it looks like this:

    You followed through on your mysterious ROE which is not public and we followed through on our ROE which is public.

    MalcConch wrote:

    Do you not have it the wrong way round?
    The ARES player in question spied on me then went running to his alliance when he didn't like my reaction.

    I posted to the board to find others' thoughts on ARES following up on their policies and not considering the validity of mine.


    Again you have shown how egocentric you are. Basically our ROE doesn't matter. It's all about your ROE and how you think the game should be played. Everyone in the server should subscribe to your rules.

    We, on the other hand, feel that different alliances are entitled to having their own ROE.

    'Different' means that ROEs won't have compatibility in some cases.
  • I am not complaining and do not believe I am being
    hypocritical. I said to the ARES leader it’s
    fine for them to follow their policies.
    My point is that my policy is if someone spies on me I attack them.

    The question is, should ARES respect my policy and say, “fair
    enough”? The ARES play could have
    contacted me beforehand to clarify my position on spying. As I said, I contacted ARES to discuss the
    matter at the time of my reaction.

    The next question we have is how should I react to the ARES
    player who spied on me again then attacked me?
    Am I expected to back down because he called in his friends?
  • MalcConch wrote:

    I am not complaining and do not believe I am being
    hypocritical. I said to the ARES leader it’s
    fine for them to follow their policies.


    Let me take that spade away from you, so that you stop digging yourself in deeper.

    You are indeed complaining. You've posted 1 side of an issue to the wider ETA community, asking them if they think it is fair (thus implicitly letting us know it is unfair, and that you've been wronged by us). Putting forth this issue in such a backhanded whinefest is not generally conducive towards a peaceful outcome.

    As you are complaining, this means you are being hypocritical about your claims.




    But back to the matter at hand. You said you contacted the ARES diplomat. (note - contact, not start a dialogue)
    So let me get this straight, because I really want to ensure I get this correct.

    1. You told a large alliance, well known for going to war - who state publicly that they will enforce their policies if diplomacy fails that you would attack their member.
    2. You then attacked their member.

    That's just stupid.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Talista ().

  • A simple question of why you found spies in your town would have worked well. This way the issue could have been checked into and we could have taken care of the issue.
  • Perhaps I am not being clear. I am not complaining and I am not moaning. I am simply saying that I reacted to 1 policy and another group to another and that it appears to me the latter group did not see the justification of my reaction via my policy. Like I said, I could have contacted me before the spying. As I was not contacted I had to assume the spies were a precursor to an attack.

    For info, I had a response from ARES at the time of my attack and I fully explain my reaction.

    Your policy points do not seem relevant as I did not start this. They do however raise the question is it OK for ARES to spy on another player and expect no reaction?
  • RE: Do ARES' Policies Trump Everyone Else's?

    MalcConch wrote:

    I pointed out that if the ARES player had asked for permission to send in the spies the reaction may have been different.

    So what you want if somebody is planning on attacking you you want them to ask permission. Hey im going to attack you can i send in spies to see what you have. I dont think so. This has to be the dumbest complaint I have read on here
  • This is getting to the crux of my point.

    ARES expect me to contact them and say, “Excuse me but I caught some spies” as that’s how they want everyone else to operate. They do not appear to appreciate that they way I operate is by attacking and saying why I’m attacking.

    My comment on asking permission to send in spies is made as it is dumb. I make it as that to highlight ARES’ apparent spy policy – If they say I need to contact them if I find spies then I can say connect me before you send in spies.

    ARES say their policy is x so that justifies them implementing it
    I say my policy is y so that justifies me implementing it

    But…ARES say I shouldn’t attack them, ie its OK for them to implement their policy but I can’t implement mine.

    Again, I’m not complaining, the ARES leader politely told me the alliance would attack me. As stated I am wondering if ARES' policy trumps mine.
  • From my dealings with ARES, they pretty much stick by their policies and that is that. they make them well known and they have shown that they will follow them.

    While you may want to hold your own policies before theirs, you will find that they will not. This is neither right nor wrong, but simply the way they are. you should use that knowledge when deciding your own course of action.
  • merits to both sides. I dont think ares means they trump u i think they have a policy which they have enforced and u have a policy which u inforced. Through diplomacy u could have probably resolved this. Have u ever considered with the new updates players are curios as to the new system and may want to try it out. At the same time prior contact would have been advisable but often this is not a though in a players mind. Maybe some leaniency on both sides would have been the best solution because of the new updates to the spy system. Regardless of my issues with ares i see this as an easily avoidied issue with simply wrongs on both sides. Ie no biggy
  • Ok, let me clear up a few things, or at least share my perspective of the events.

    MalcConch wrote:

    The ARES player in question spied on me then went running to his alliance when he didn't like my reaction.

    That isn't how it happened from what I recall. You sent me a diplo message that said you got spied on and you were attacking our member in response. 1 hour later when I got online to read this message, I looked at the island in question and saw smoke already rising from his city. You message was simply informing me of your intent without discussion of any kind. When I see smoke, I send the troops should further diplomacy fail. Portar didn't even get online to answer my inqueries of the situation until a few hours into it. He didn't come running to his alliance, we came running to him.

    MalcConch wrote:

    He directed me to the ARES policy saying that in the circumstances, the only course of action was for them to attack me.

    I gave you 2 options. The first was to return the looted goods and call it a day, and I'd make sure our player didn't bother you anymore. The second was that we would come and collect his resources from you, and I pointed out that in the past it is usually more expensive to go this route. You chose which path you were going to walk, and I have no problem with you sticking with your policy. We just did the same.

    MalcConch wrote:

    So, the question is, do ARES policies overrule everyone else’s? Can they invite attack then take umbrage at the consequences?

    Our policy is what we follow, not anyone else's rulebook. Should it be found in conflict with others, that is why the game supplies us with armies.
  • When we catch somebody else's spies, we don't attack. We contact the interested party and ask for explanations. The interested can give any explanation he wants, but as long as there's no attack, we won't take any hostile action.

    You are free to dictate your rules, and stick to them. But you have to allow us to do the same. Your rule is to attack anybody that spies on you? Good, go on. Ours is to attack anybody that attacks one of us unless that ARES member is inactive or, unprovoked, started himself attacking. You play by your rules, fine. We play by ours. You expect us to play by your rules? You'd have to able to enforce them on us. Go on and try, you're welcome. That's exactly what Connovar tried to do. We're still having fun.

    End result of round one of "ARES should play by my rules": MalcConch is already in (v)

    Anyone else wants to try?
  • Hi MalcConch, as one who was involved in this fight let me get things clear. Spying is part of the game and nobody is asking for permission if he wonna spy. At least no one I know.... ?(

    I do not know what porter had in mind sending spies to you and to be honest I also do not realy care . In case my guards would catch a spy, honestly I would not be happy too. In a first step I would look at the players total score. 300k, yours nearly 2million. Not that much of a threat. Second, I would look at his GS score. porters 9k against 25k of yours (not sure about the exact numbers). Not even worth to waste more time. Third, I would contact him and asking why he has done it. If the result would not be satisfying I would contact the diplomat in case the person wears a tag.

    Your ROE seem to attack straight without giving the diplomat a change to get a picture of the whole incident. Thats also ok and nobody will complain about that. On the other side we have also our ROE. Diskussed severel times on the board. Zero tolerance for people who attack one of ours without the ok of our leadership.

    If this is the case and you have choosen this path as it look like, we have our SOP (standard operating procedure). We get the coords and the order to hunt you down until a diplomatic solution is found. There are no emotions, personal feelings or a whish for a 1on1. We come, we see and in most of the cases we win.....

    I for myself was not aware of your existance until yesterday. Guess, I got coords and an order. (not realy, I was a volunteer).

    To conclude, we are sending troops until the target is destroyed or goes into v-mode. The duration of this process is variable. From 1 day to weeks and months. Thats the simple truth.

    If you wonna end it, contact the diplomat say I am sorry or come to an other solution. Thats it and everyone can go to business as usual....



    just my 1 cent....... bio*

    Ps: We are good in what we are doing, so everyone should think twice before knocking on our doors without permission.
    ingame: bioforce, proud slave of ARES

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Pretender ().

  • Respect again to 15 Mexicans. His version of events is clear and correct.

    I'm in Vacation mode as in a couple of hours I'm away for some time. I am not hiding. I have already passed this information onto ARES.

    It appears the conclusion is I react how I want and ARES reacts how they want. If that means there's conflict then that's how it is.

    Like I said before the ARES player in question spied on me a second time and attacked me. If that's the course of action he's taking then he should expect me to react at a time that suits me.

    And with that, lets see how this pans out. Last night's battle was entertaining if a little long (13 hours if I remember correctly). And I nearly won at one point ;)
  • "Like I said before the ARES player in question spied on me a second time and attacked me. If that's the course of action he's taking then he should expect me to react at a time that suits me."

    I only find it logical that while our retailation had already started he joined in to retake what was his. To be honest, I'd like you to show some proof about this because I didn't see any CR on our forum with his name on it. Anyway, you pillage him first, it's to be expected to have him collect back what you took, at the best possible moment.

    Nonetheless, feel free to "react when it suits you". Our reaction as you've already learned will follow swiftly and far outweight any loot you steal. I'm always more than eager to get some of the following:

    Display Spoiler
    Battle for Oocmsw
    (17.02.2011 9:58:16)

    Cagliostro - from Tebe
    vs
    MalcConch from Oocmsw

    ───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
    Swordsman...........1200(-0).... - Swordsman..............0(-53)...
    ................................ - Hoplite................0(-53)...
    Sulphur Carabineer...200(-0).... - Sulphur Carabineer.....0(-53)...
    Gyrocopter...........180(-0).... - ................................
    Balloon-Bombardier....30(-0).... - Balloon-Bombardier.....0(-4)....
    Battering ram.........18(-0).... - ................................
    Mortar................18(-0).... - ................................
    Doctor................40(-0).... - Doctor.................2(-0)....
    Cook..................60(-0).... - Cook...................4(-0)....
    Spearmen............1107(-93)... - ................................
    ................................ - Wall...................3(-4)....
    ───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
    Generals.....................-55 - Generals....................-373
    Damage Received............2,790 - Damage Received...........98,647
    ───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

    Winners: Cagliostro -

    Loot: 19,474 2,775 17,812 35,111 4,825

    As MalcConch did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    The attackers won the battle because they penetrated the wall and because the defenders did not have any units on site to close the breach.

    Created using Ikariam CR Converter (v3.12)
  • Uhh, look again Cag, he was in it from near the start.

    Display Spoiler
    Battle for Swoocm
    (17.02.2011 7:13:39)

    15 Mexicans from , porter5033 from , Bioforce from , Tadpole from , Benny_2_Scoops from , bumba from , Doomreaperjr from
    vs
    MalcConch from , Ali Smith from

    ───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
    Slinger................5(-0).... - ................................
    Swordsman...........2113(-2248). - Swordsman..............0(-3122).
    Hoplite..............824(-1472). - Hoplite................0(-4478).
    Archer................15(-0).... - ................................
    Sulphur Carabineer..1648(-252).. - Sulphur Carabineer.....0(-2003).
    Gyrocopter..........1203(-314).. - Gyrocopter............56(-526)..
    Steam Giant.........1028(-639).. - ................................
    Balloon-Bombardier....81(-254).. - Balloon-Bombardier.....0(-348)..
    Battering ram........126(-60)... - ................................
    Catapult.............108(-2).... - Catapult..............14(-10)...
    Mortar...............402(-3).... - Mortar................75(-141)..
    Doctor...............109(-0).... - Doctor...............120(-0)....
    Cook.................276(-0).... - Cook.................157(-0)....
    Spearmen..............37(-500).. - ................................
    ................................ - Wall...................0(-7)....
    ───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
    Generals.................-12,665 - Generals.................-25,844
    Damage Received..........633,290 - Damage Received........1,292,200
    ───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

    Winners: 15 Mexicans, Bioforce, Tadpole, Benny_2_Scoops, bumba, Doomreaperjr

    [color=#EVENTS]15 Mexicans's army has been completely destroyed.
    15 Mexicans's army has been called back and have left the battlefield.
    porter5033's army has been called back and have left the battlefield.
    15 Mexicans's army has been called back and have left the battlefield.
    Bioforce's army has been called back and have left the battlefield.
    Bioforce's army has been called back and have left the battlefield.
    porter5033's army has fled because they were exhausted from fighting.
    Bioforce's army has been called back and have left the battlefield.
    porter5033's army fled due to a lack of morale, when they saw that their number of casualties was much larger than that of their enemy.
    15 Mexicans's army has been completely destroyed.
    15 Mexicans's army has been completely destroyed.
    15 Mexicans's army has been completely destroyed.
    15 Mexicans's army has been called back and have left the battlefield.
    porter5033's army has fled because the close-combat battle line has been penetrated.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    Tadpole's army has been called back and have left the battlefield.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    Ali Smith's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    MalcConch's army has been completely destroyed.
    As Ali Smith did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    As Ali Smith did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    As MalcConch did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    As MalcConch did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    As MalcConch did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    As MalcConch did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    As MalcConch did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    As MalcConch did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    As MalcConch did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    As MalcConch did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    As MalcConch did not have any units left to hold on to the main battle line, the rest of the army has withdrawn.
    [/color]
    Created using the Ikariam CR Converter [Web Version]


    Of course he spied and attacked again, I asked him to do that. I told him to send a small pillage force into the fight so he could loot, much easier on my end than looting it myself and sending it to him.

    The new battlefield size ran me out of troops a little faster than I expected so it was close there for a couple rounds. I hate when I lose those marksmen :P