Give defenders a 1 hour penalty when fleeing battles to prevent immediate rebellion

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  • Voted No just cause TNT is for it. Gives them another cause to come seek me out. :thumbsup:

    Verbal Warning Issued - Off Topic Post - Please next time read other comments as you would have seen this Post - Hera
  • does it matter? yes and no

    I vote no due to the solution to this problem, but i do think that this problem needs addressed and fixed.

    I am currently #1 in D points, and i don't think it really matters whether its O points or D points that you get. The only thing that these points show is who fights more often on offense or defense. If your # 1 in O points then the fights that you have been in, you have been on the offensive side. #1 in D points means that you were on the defensive side. Probably more than half of my D points came from me fighting in some other persons town. I could have easily did the trick that this thread is over, but it wasn't and isn't necessary as nothing really changes other than being the attacker.

    Adding an hour to the time it takes to get back in your town is not a good solution to the problem that your presenting for a couple reasons. Reason 1 is that if you withdraw your troops from battle and your town is occupied, when your troops return in 1 hour they would scatter (unless this is changed with this option). Reason 2 is that if you withdraw from battle, that leave 1 hour for the enemy to move their troops to a different town on the island and send 1 free pillage to your town before your troops return (30 min to a town, 15 min to send a pillage, approx 30 min load time of resources). Reason 3 was mentioned in a previous post about waving troops.

    My solution to the presented problem is 1 of 2 things. 1 is to prevent rebelling for 1 hour as your troops need to regroup and reorganize. This will still allow you to be able to withdraw and wave troops back in as needed without being penalized for something that the attacker can do without this penalty. 2 is to change it so that if you rebel that your still on the defensive side, but this would have to be changed so that the wall isn't in place otherwise you could just rebel and withdraw again and again and the attacker would have to fight the wall again and a again.

    I would also like to see that if you rebel your on the defensive side as my suggestion 2 states from above, and if you send troops from a different town to the town that is occupied then you are on the offensive side and the troops that were in the town are unable to join in as they would be prisoners of the occupier. If during the battle that you are on the offensive side and then click the rebel button then your would be put back onto the defensive side and the (prisoners) would then be able to join back into the battle. This gives a + and - for using the rebel button since it does seem that everyone wants O points.
    Alpha IGN: Dusty4ever
  • I see my on topic,non offensive post was reported. Must be a troll.

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  • I think a hour is too short. The penalty should be slap on someone who surrender & not to reward it with ability to control time for revenge.
    And how can a defender in his HOME town get out of a beating position & suddenly become offensive.
    Diff of offensive & defensive? Someone here should use dict! :rolleyes:
    Some said O/D points not importance.
    I agree with this as such game design only make a mockery of the offensive/defensive scoring system & thus irrelevant.

    Do reward the ego of someone who go out of the way to inject life it's worth in recognition.
    Let get bugs like this thrown out of the game.

    Thank you.
  • Just compare the battle with rl stituation when you are on the attacker side away from your home you don't know what kind of tactics your opponent is using and you go there with limited resources so when you call back logically it take some time for the attacker to run away and regain their mentle state ....
    Now when you are in your home and you are full of unlimited ammo ... Unlimited other resources and you know all the secret doors of your town so it simply give you a advantes.... What happen basically when a army attack a town in rl they come either they kill all the troop and and loot all the resources , as much they can, or the army simply surrender or ran away to hide inside a canal or behind a trap to hold the opponent ...
    So when i compare the current battle rule of ika with RL it simply say that is good... So all these type of suggestions are totally ridiculous ....
    I am voting NO. X(

    The post was edited 1 time, last by don ().

  • Another example of game mechanic abuse:

    Me as attacker:
    diigo.com/item/image/4ezgk/6cu0

    And in 19 sec, I am now the defender:
    diigo.com/item/image/4ezgk/jty0

    This is done in his own town which he deliberately parked his large fleet and waited for us to attack. Why did he do it? Because he can abuse the combat mechanic and become the new attacker. The advantage? He earns O-points and also gets to use Colossus anytime he wants to send us away when he runs out of ammo or run low of ships. We can re-attack the town after colossus, but he runs away immediately so we can't find him anymore. He rebuilds, re-attacks, colossus, runs away. Rinse and repeat. Then post all the Colossus wins as legit CRs.

    Defenders don't have any advantage? :rolleyes:

    Okay sure maybe the 1hr penalty do not need to be removed but sure as hell, defenders should stay as a defender if they were to retreat out of a battle INTO their city since they will have to fight their way out.

    I will request the Mods to allow me to change the title and and also the removal of the 1 hr penalty and change this suggestion into forcing the defender to stay as a defender no matter how fast he retreats and rebels.

    I guess that will sit better with the crowd? ^^
  • So you want the system work EXACTLY as it is but have rebel put you as defender instead of attacler so you gain DP instead of OP?

    Okay... you better be kidding. We ha e shown the OP/DP does not matter. In that case the suggestion is still a no.
    In addition how would this work when you have outside troops join you?

    And since you're so focused on RL here's why OP now.
    Seeing that he could regroup the general rallied his men and charged the occupying force from the citadel. Being unprepared the defenders reeled and fell back. It was a glorious victory.


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  • EDIT: I do find it interesting how the two No-Voters are two people whom I have heard good things about in terms of their fighting skills. I find it intriguing how two people that would want to be on the attack and are good at it, do not like this suggestion.

    Attacking, defending, green CR, red CR... What's the difference? DAMAGE! That's where it's at. My enemy can brag about locking down all of my towns, but if I lose 1/3 of his units, I'm just going to sit here, smiling at his miserable defeat. For that reason, I do not care if I'm defending or attacking, as long as I can find a way to make him suffer, with what I have at my disposal, which is why I'm just irritated by some people on this thread, who want this feature to gain some irrelevant OP's.


    As for this...
    This is done in his own town which he deliberately parked his large fleet and waited for us to attack. Why did he do it? Because he can abuse the combat mechanic and become the new attacker. The advantage? He earns O-points and also gets to use Colossus anytime he wants to send us away when he runs out of ammo or run low of ships. We can re-attack the town after colossus, but he runs away immediately so we can't find him anymore. He rebuilds, re-attacks, colossus, runs away. Rinse and repeat. Then post all the Colossus wins as legit CRs.

    I'm sorry, but you just got milked. The fact that your enemy was clever enough to set up a skillfull trap like that, and get away with it, tells me that he's good. Don't blame game mechanics, if you can't take out a clever opponent. (Yes, that was intended as pointy as it sounded)
    Okay sure maybe the 1hr penalty do not need to be removed but sure as hell, defenders should stay as a defender if they were to retreat out of a battle INTO their city since they will have to fight their way out.

    This, however, is a completely different suggestion, and I think it should be made in a new thread. But...
    Okay... you better be kidding. We ha e shown the OP/DP does not matter. In that case the suggestion is still a no.
    In addition how would this work when you have outside troops join you?

    ...a valid point makes me reconsider.

    Combat system is fine, IMHO. zyblack - you just showed that a defender (who we all know is at a disadvantage) can really make the best out of a situation.
    In other words - don't fix it, if it ain't broke.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Amnesiac ().

  • Kaleg Nar wrote:

    So you want the system work EXACTLY as it is but have rebel put you as defender instead of attacler so you gain DP instead of OP?

    Okay... you better be kidding. We ha e shown the OP/DP does not matter. In that case the suggestion is still a no.
    In addition how would this work when you have outside troops join you?

    And since you're so focused on RL here's why OP now.
    Seeing that he could regroup the general rallied his men and charged the occupying force from the citadel. Being unprepared the defenders reeled and fell back. It was a glorious victory.


    You have said repeatedly that OP/DP doesn't matter for you but it sure does for the opponents I fight, which includes a Moderator for the board. Check out the Alpha sub-forum and you can decipher who it is from CRs they posted. They also posted a fair bit of Colossus wins but cut off the events so you would have a hard time guessing which is which.

    If it doesn't really matter, why are they are they constantly changing the defender/attacker role since accordingly to you, no cares about those points? They could remain as a defender right and earn D-points which is the same as O-points right?

    And if you notice, quite a few people agree that this is a problem to be resolved. Not all that answered Yes to the polls are from my alliance.

    -------------------

    Answering Amnesiac:

    It doesn't take much skill to just park a large fleet in a blocked port and wait for enemies to attack you. In order for the war to move forward, someone have to do the attacking. If you were in the same scenario, what would you do? Perhaps you can better enlighten me as to your proposed strategy of disarming this skillful trap of my opponent.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by zyblack ().

  • The fact that he was online to switch the positions and use the collosus, is a pretty clear indication that he was online at the time of the battle. If I got caught in this scenario once, I would never attack the guy again, unless I was absolutely certain he was offline. And if he came online despite the odds - too bad. Other than that, I don't see much more you can do. But more to the point, I don't see anything wrong with that.

    You say someone has to do the attacking. You chose to attack. Face the consequences. Rules and mechanics that apply to the defender in this case, apply to everyone else as well. If you don't want to get caught out like that, don't attack, park your own large navy in your own port, and wait for them to come after you.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Amnesiac ().

  • zyblack, Your attitude that someone has to be the attacker plays right into his hand. Why should he venture out when he knows you will come? Your focus on opoints being so important is exactly why he waited and turned the tables so you wouldnt get them.

    He used your weakness against you.

    I know its hard to see when you are in the middle of it, but take a step back every once in awhile to re-evaluate your own tactics. Keep doing the same thing over and over again, your enemy learns how to use your tactics against you. Have to keep them guessing. Just like you never hit the same opponent over and over in the same town. Eventually they learn not to put troops there and watch their warehouses in that town.

    You have to draw him away from where he has home field advantage. Draw him to a battlefield of your choosing. Stop letting him choose it and battles go more according to your plans than his.
    On July 12th, 2015, the 'gentle giant' lost his 14 year war with cancer. We are honored that he served as our SGO. RIP dear husband.
  • One thing not being mentioned

    When an attacker (mostly in naval battles) gets flipped to the defender, he loses the ability to recall his ships to where they attacked from. His only option is to recall to one of his own cities, which may not be nearby. This is fundamentally unfair and a real problem for attackers ability to stay on the offensive.

    Also, agree with BM above that rebelling should always go to the defense, and not the offense....o-points/d-points isn't really the issue.
    Big Bossman
    Co-Leader TNT :ninja:
  • OK, so -having read updates and alterations on the initial suggestion- are you telling me you think it's unfair for the defender to be ○7ble to switch positions, but it's ok if they Colossus you all the way back home????

    The fact is, this is a game of STRATEGY. The programmers set in the battle system (just as much as anything else) and WE (the players) need to THINK of the best way to use them (within the rules).

    Claims that piracy raids from mobiles are unfair, limited building slots is slowing me down, one miracle is better than the others ..etc. all pour in the same pot: you want a game of your own design. You want it to work your own way. Let's just say that -if that's the case- you may indeed negotiate with GF to start your own server with your own rules, provided you can cover the expenses on your own.

    P.S. This is NOT meant to be a personal attack. I'm just making a point here; which is: if the rules of -say- soccer state that a player cannot be deemed off-side if they are not interfering in play does NOT make it unfair for someone to just stand astray and not move towards the ball, so as to let his teammate rushing from behind move in and score. This is CLEVER, not otherwise.

    USE THE GAME CHARACTERISTICS TO YOUR OWN ADVANTAGE, my friend, rather than complain about them not working for you. Rest assured even if they do change the system someone WILL fund a way of using the new system to their advantage and you will be sitting on that same chair telling us how it should've been so instead of this.

    Over and out.
    :D:D I laugh because I don't know what -the hell- is going on :D:D


  • I think the fundamental flaw in this whole combat system is the fact that there is no consequences to an action taken by the combatant besides time penalty. One of the thing used to cause people to think twice about withdrawing from a battle is the extra damage taken. I say bring that back for only if you completely withdraw all your units from a battle. This is as real life as you can get. Guess what happens when you turn around and run away from your enemy combatants in real life? You get a spear/arrow in your back as you try to run away.

    So yeah, I would agree let's take away the time penalty and instead bring back the heavy loss of units penalty. You guys want real? This is REAL! Percentage loss is still up for debate but I remember it was in the 20-25% back in the old days of Ikariam.
  • Temporarily closing this suggestion, as with the edited suggestion from what was originally presented has made the votes become a null. as the original votes and comments were based upon a 1 hr penalty being applied...not the now edited suggestion from Remaining as Defender when rebelling in own city.

    Current Poll at time of this post. Yes 45 Votes No 30 Votes


    EDIT- Suggestion has been modified and re submitted as new suggestion...Rebellion in town should result in town owner being the defender instead of being the new attacker

    Moved to rejected reason: Changes made.

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