The Piracy System Revisited (Minus Reward System)

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  • The Piracy System Revisited (Minus Reward System)

    General Information:

    Unfortunately this suggestion disappeared from the forums. I do not know why and I did not remove it myself... so with a deep breath I shall be rebuilding, improving upon and reposting this set of closely-linked suggestions.

    These suggestions pertain to the way that Pirate battles are fought and determined. It is not for the faint of heart.

    I ask that players kindly consider how this suggestion will benefit the game as well as their alliance and friends before voting.

    What are you suggesting?

    Part 1 - Crew Suffer Casualties During Raids

    Both players in a piracy conflict suffer between 10% and 20% of the opposing player's crew in casualties (as a base line)

    The 10% to 20% variance indicates how viscious the battle was.

    This is further modified by a -+10% luck modifier (similar to present piracy)

    Part 2 - The Pirate Fortress - A Defensive Role

    It is called a Pirate Fortress but it plays a role in neither protecting Capture Points nor does it provide a defensive advantage in piracy battles.

    Hence my suggestion is that Pirate Fortresses should be modified as follows:

    50 Protected Capture Points per Fortress level (this stacks with all Fortresses).

    +5 Crew Minimum/ Bonus Crew per Fortress level (Instead of the present +2 per Fortress level (improved minimum functional level) - this stacks with all Fortresses)

    Casualty Resistance: 10 X Fortress Level

    Part 3 - Survivors Loot Capture Points

    Following a successful attack a player carries off only twice as many Capture Points as he or she has surviving Crew at the end of the battle.

    This applies to capture missions also! Capture missions do not cost casualties.

    How will it change the interface/gameplay/battles/system?

    Besides the benefit of simple Piracy Reports accessible via a tab in the Pirate Fortress, the interface itself would not change much.

    Suggestion Reason:

    Well besides the original suggestion going missing, I do believe that piracy as it presently exists could use significant improvements. Independently of considering its reward system, the piracy system is fankly quite crude when compared to the rest of Ikariam.

    I also strongly suspect that the end result would entail a more healthy Piracy conflict system as a whole.

    Some players might object to the concept of protected capture points but these players should remember that they would help get players' crews back to fully mission-capable levels - and it only inflates the bottom of the leaderboard. :)

    Render/Image/Screenshot:

    Rather than an image, I shall illustrate the proposed system in action:

    Player A with 10,000 Crew attacks from town Obsidon
    Player B with 05,000 Crew defends town Excelon (10x Level 25 Fortresses, including this town) with 50,000 Capture Points

    Lets presume equal luck and a rather viscious battle. Hence each player loses 20% of the opposing player's crew. Player B also enjoys a casualty reduction of 250 due to the level 25 Fortress (10 x 25).

    Player A would lose 1,000 crew from Player B's 5,000 Crew.
    Player B would lose 1,750 crew from Player A's 10,000 Crew (And is reduced by 250 for the Fortress)

    With 9,000 vs 3,250 Crew, Player A is the winner and so Player B is looted.

    Of the 50,000 Capture Points owned by Player B, his ten Level 25 Fortresses protect 12,500 (stored in nooks and crannies of the various Fortresses possessed).

    Player A loots 18,000 Capture Points.

    Player B is left with 32,000 Capture Points and 3,250 Crew and needs to brace for the second attack.

    Special Notes:

    As always I am open to recommendations for improvement - as well as feedback. :)

    0062215


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  • I like this at the moment and have voted yes. My position might change as I'm sure Pirates will see flaws but I do have a preference towards this. Nice work.


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  • very much liked and voted yes.. :thumbsup:

    but I have one question..



    This applies to capture missions also! Capture missions do not cost casualties.
    what does this mean? in case of capture runs, the capture points are already determined.. then how would no. of crew effect the output of capture raid?

    please elaborate..
  • Thank you for the feedback Sarberas :)

    If a player has 500 crew then that crew can carry up to 1,000 CP in a single run. Hence anything beyond a 1 hour mission (1,131 CP) would be highfully wasteful on time as 500 crew can only carry 1,000 out of 1,131 CP possible for the mission. ^^

    To get the most out of a mission 16 hours long (7414 CP) a player would need 3707 crew.

    This would discourage feeding (requiring them to consider the economy of their actions - and its no longer 'just' about hitting the longest mission for convenience) but would not end the practice. Mechanisms would help feeders to get back on their feet (e.g. the protected CP).


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    The post was edited 1 time, last by James Cauchi ().

  • approval for the suggestion

    and something should be done to prevent piracy from killing fights
    piracy turned out to be the main game which im not quite fond of

    im old school and not of travelling throughout the world with mc
    however i respect those who do
    piracy gives great resources

    YET PIRACY CAUSES ALLIANCE WARS
    I HATE BEING OBLIGED TO FIGHT AGAINST AN ANGRY PLAYER RAIDED BY MY ALLI
    because those pirates dont know how to fight and we travel the world for the war and they dont show up and all we get is board fights
    if u cannot solve ur piracy problems in pirate way dont go pirate
    if u cannot fight dont wage war


    i propose a ratio of piracy rewards should be plunderable
    its awkward to see players with millions of ts & zero gs
    ign sismanpasa&battalgazi
    since 2008

    The post was edited 1 time, last by sismanpasa ().

  • Firstly, there is no present 10-20% "luck" or otherwise factor in current piracy. Maybe you can elaborate what you think has this.

    James Cauchi wrote:

    Part 2 - The Pirate Fortress - A Defensive Role

    50 Protected Capture Points per Fortress level (this stacks with all Fortresses).
    This sub-part is not needed, when surviving crew only can carry 2 points each. It might be tempting to say each pirate should have some safe keepings, but pirates are pirates and they can lose everything. If you forget to convert points into crew, then its your own fault - only crew can protect your treasure..ehm points.

    James Cauchi wrote:

    Part 3 - Survivors Loot Capture Points

    Following a successful attack a player carries off only twice as many Capture Points as he or she has surviving Crew at the end of the battle.

    This applies to capture missions also! Capture missions do not cost casualties.
    If it also always applies to Capture missions, then it will kill the feeder role - therefor this sub-part must be removed. Not everyone wants to play pirates, and being a feeder allows such players to help its alliance and/or friend(s).

    Other then that, I like this suggestion. It makes piracy more combat-like which is good.

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  • Paul Atreides wrote:

    Firstly, there is no present 10-20% "luck" or otherwise factor in current piracy. Maybe you can elaborate what you think has this.

    James Cauchi wrote:

    Part 2 - The Pirate Fortress - A Defensive Role

    50 Protected Capture Points per Fortress level (this stacks with all Fortresses).
    This sub-part is not needed, when surviving crew only can carry 2 points each. It might be tempting to say each pirate should have some safe keepings, but pirates are pirates and they can lose everything. If you forget to convert points into crew, then its your own fault - only crew can protect your treasure..ehm points.

    James Cauchi wrote:

    Part 3 - Survivors Loot Capture Points

    Following a successful attack a player carries off only twice as many Capture Points as he or she has surviving Crew at the end of the battle.

    This applies to capture missions also! Capture missions do not cost casualties.
    If it also always applies to Capture missions, then it will kill the feeder role - therefor this sub-part must be removed. Not everyone wants to play pirates, and being a feeder allows such players to help its alliance and/or friend(s).

    Other then that, I like this suggestion. It makes piracy more combat-like which is good.
    First point.. There is a luck that favors in the defender of the piracy. it increases the crew strength of defender 20%


    Second point.. the sub part is essential.. this way an :censored: pirate can't zero another at the last moment.

    Third point.. now.. there can be no more passive feeder.. if you want to help your main pirate. you will need to have some crew strength and you'll have to keep building your crew strength, as your main pirate will keep destroying your CS in order to steal CP from you..

    You can still help your main pirate, but now you will also have to be active pirate wise..

    The reason for this suggestion to stop passive feeding.. and I completely support it.. and if you think that piracy is killing the main game.. then You should too..
  • @Sismanpasa - Thank you for the feedback. :) I am not certain if I am understanding you correctly.

    Many players would agree that hardships experienced in Piracy should not spill over to the main Ikariam game. Not all players feel this way though.

    As for piracy awards being raided - Players always have the option of attacking those who place highly in the round. However I cannot see crew carrying off resources. Such would render piracy a cheap form of pillaging.

    @Paul Atreides - Thank you very much for the feedback and questions :)

    About Luck:

    Actually luck is listed in the Help section for Piracy/ Raids.

    "The result of the raid is automatically determined. For this you and your opponent receive a destiny bonus of -10 % to +10 % on your crew strength. Afterwards the crew strengths of both players will be compared and the winner will be determined."

    The destiny bonus (sounds nicer than luck) is something that I incorporated into this suggestion.

    Casualty Calculation Recap:

    So to recap each combat would result in:

    • Opposing piracy crews facing off in a quick battle
    • The respective crews suffering casualties from the fighting


    The actual number of casualties for the battle represent a composite of:

    • A percentage from 10-to-20% to represent how viscious a battle was.
    • The balance of casualties would be modified by -+10% to represent the 'destiny bonus'


    Casualties for the defender would be reduced by 10 per Piracy Fortress level in that town.

    Victory:

    The victor of the battle would be determined through highest number of crew surviving the battle.

    The victor (if attacker) gets to carry off twice as many Capture Points as he has men standing

    About Protected Capture Points

    In the event that this gets implemented along with this other Piracy Suggestion (Black Market Bartering) then I too would agree that this aspect should at least involve a reduction in strength.

    Even without the joint implementation I can maybe see value in a reduction for the sake of balance - in the same way that Warehouses currently protect very little (although it is to be noted that unlike warehouses, Capture Points are not town-specific). Taking the above example of Level 25 Pirate Fortresses earlier in this thread, which of the following might sound most palatable to you?

    • 50/ Pirate Fortress Level = 12,500 Protected (Less than 3 x 8-hour runs)
    • 25/ Pirate Fortress Level = 06,250 Protected (Less than 3 x 4-hour runs)
    • 10/ Pirate Fortress Level = 02,500 Protected (Less than 3 x 1-Hour Runs)


    I am personally leaning towards 25/ Pirate Fortress Level as being best-comparable to warehouse protection. It can also be considered a mild anti-feeder buffer.

    Capture Missions and Feeders

    While I do not wish to completely eradicate feeder chains I personally never liked the way that they turned an aspect of the game intended for individuals into an aspect of the game played by alliances. As such I consider elements that reduce the convenience of casual feeding to be more of a plus than not.

    However do note that in the above example a dedicated feeder with 10 x level 25 Fortresses would benefit from a minimum crew level of 1,250 (1,500 with level 30 Fortresses - yes raising the Fortress bonus/ minimum crew to 5/ level was intended to throw a life-line to feeders and those whose crews got zeroed).

    This life-line to feeders and zeroed players could be increased to 10 minimum/ bonus crew per Piracy Fortress Level such that the same case scenario would involve a minimum crew level of 2,500. Of course the defensive bite of such a crew increases also. Other suggestions for rebalancing welcome. :)

    Thanks again for the feedback and I am eager to hear more from you both about these points as well as any others that you might like to touch upon.

    @Sarberas - Thank you for the support ^^

    Although the luck doesn't always support the defender, does it? Destiny bonus as it is worded suggests a shift in balance one way or another.

    I do not wish to 'completely' do away with feeder chains - I just want there to be other options for players who have nothing better to do than be a feeder :)


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    The post was edited 3 times, last by James Cauchi: Minor Reformatting of text - and added a further response to post. ().

  • Greetings Ikariam Piracy players and observers. :)

    I would like to remind you all of this suggestion at a time when many players are feeling burned at having tried so hard and 'still' got zero for their efforts while one or two might have gotten extraordinarily lucky.

    This particular suggestion seeks to bring the piracy system in line with the rest of Ikariam in terms of refinement of the process. It may also take a small but necessary step towards dissuading certain current dubious practices in the way it is played (although it does not eliminate them - for those who seek to persist).

    Kindly spread awareness of this thread within your respective alliances. More votes and feedback shall be required for this to (possibly) see the light of day. :)


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    The post was edited 1 time, last by James Cauchi ().

  • I like these 2 parts of this suggestion...

    James Cauchi wrote:

    50 Protected Capture Points per Fortress level (this stacks with all Fortresses).

    +5 Crew Minimum/ Bonus Crew per Fortress level (Instead of the present +2 per Fortress level (improved minimum functional level) - this stacks with all Fortresses)


    ...but dislike the suggestion as a whole.
  • Thank you for the feedback Ne0.

    I am sure that there is a reason why you dislike the suggestion as a whole?

    The two elements that you like work better as part of the whole presented because:

    '+5 Crew Minimum/ Bonus Crew per Fortress level (Instead of the present +2 per Fortress level (improved minimum functional level) - this stacks with all Fortresses)' - works to raise the minimum number of crew that a player has - which is important for getting a player with a wiped-out crew back on his or her feet faster.

    and

    '50 Protected Capture Points per Fortress level (this stacks with all Fortresses).' would only serve to inflate the bottom of the leader board if implemented alone.

    Incidentally you may also wish to weigh in on the thread that shortly before your response was most prominent in this forum. The one about the hottest potato of all - Who gets/ how many get piracy reward benefits and how. :!:


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