Town Wall Revisited - Part 1 (Breached Wall & Repairs)

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

Dear users,

please note that we have a new forum now. You'll find it here.

The old forum is set to read-only mode now.

Your Ikariam Team

  • Town Wall Revisited - Part 1 (Breached Wall & Repairs)

    General Information:

    I would like to thank Lifetree for some of the inspiration here. There have been a number of times that I wished to revisit the Town Walls - and this is an ideal opportunity to.

    This is part of a cohesive set of Wall-related suggestions. I strongly recommend that you consider visiting all parts as otherwise certain parts will seem strange.

    What are you suggesting?

    In this part I am suggesting that Town Walls fully breached* feature a period of lower hit points, armour and attack values.

    This period may be sped up through the allocation of a token amount of relevant resources (the masons need to do less scouring for old resources to bring the wall back up to strength) or ambrosia.

    In any given Town's Town Wall a player can choose whether repairs are to take place in 'Gradual' or 'Active' mode.

    A gradual full repair (from 20%-100%) takes about 80% of the time it takes to build the wall anew (double the time for inactives) and costs no resources.
    An active full repair (from 20% to 100%) takes about 16% of the time it takes to build the wall anew and costs about 4% of the resources in wood and marble. This material cost is deducted as time goes by and repairs shall revert to 'Gradual' in any event where materials run out (presence of resources resumes).

    A Player may also opt to use ambrosia in which case any repair is 5 times faster than an active repair (or 125 times faster than a gradual repair) and costs no resources.

    (All sections of a wall need to be dropped in battle in order for a wall to be considered fully-breached.)

    In subsequent battles the wall will still appear with a 20% reduction from the normal armour and attack values (Minimum 20%) and a 10% reduction in total HP (Minimum 60%). This will regenerate over time or otherwise be repaired through player intervention.

    Regenerating a damaged wall:

    The time it takes for masons to scour the fields for all the fallen masonry is quite long - and while it may look like a bang-up job when done - it does the job.

    In game terms a wall defeated goes through a period of recovery which is a % of the time it takes to build the current level of wall anew (percentages indicated in the chart below)

    Repairing is much cheaper and quicker than building a wall anew:

    For each reduction in strength the repair cost is 1% of the value for building up the present wall level. Such Repairs take about 4% of the resources and up to 16% of the time required to build up the present wall level overall.

    Approximate Cost Values for a level 35 Wall:
    350,000 Wood, 400,000 Marble & 1 Day 16 Hours

    State of Repair- - Gradual- - - - Active - - - - - - - Fast Repair Costs
    From to To - - - - Repair Time* - Repair Time- - - - - Wood - - Marble

    020% to 040% - - - 005% - - - - - 001% - - - - - - - - 0.25%- - 0.25%
    040% to 060% - - - 015% - - - - - 003% - - - - - - - - 0.75%- - 0.75%
    060% to 080% - - - 025% - - - - - 005% - - - - - - - - 1.25%- - 1.25%
    080% to 100% - - - 035% - - - - - 007% - - - - - - - - 1.75%- - 1.75%
    ==================================================================
    020% to 100% - - - 080% - - - - - 016% - - - - - - - - 4.00%- - 4.00%



    or (for a level 35 Wall - approximately):

    State of Repair- - Gradual- - - - Active - - - - - - - Fast Repair Costs
    From to To - - - - Repair Time* - Repair Time- - - - - Wood - - Marble

    020% to 040% - - - 2 Hours- - - - 0 Hours, 24 Mins - - 0,875- - 1,000
    040% to 060% - - - 6 Hours- - - - 1 Hours, 12 Mins - - 2,625- - 3,000
    060% to 080% - - - 10 Hours - - - 2 Hours, 00 Mins - - 4,375- - 5,000
    080% to 100% - - - 14 Hours - - - 2 Hours, 48 Mins - - 6,125- - 7,000
    ==================================================================
    020% to 100% - - - 32 Hours - - - 6 Hours, 24 Mins** - 14K- - - 16K


    *Regeneration Time doubles for Inactive Players.
    ** Just 1 Hour and 17 Minutes if ambrosia repair mode is active.

    How will it change the interface/gameplay/battles/system?

    Interface:

    When visiting the town wall of a given town, you normally see an image of the town wall with a smaller box with information about the wall in it.

    Further down (under Garrison Limit) a toggle switch will be listed (Repair Mode: - Gradual/ Active) With an ambrosia icon to the right hand side.

    To the right of this (Right under the bottom of the wall image) is a slider indicating progress towards the next repair level. The colour of the progress bar depends on whether it is gradual, active or ambrosia in repairs (or undamaged).

    How will it change the battlefield? (How will it effect other units? Will it be balanced?)

    This suggestion (if taken on independently of the other parts) shifts the balance of power towards the attacker's side.

    However players considering this suggestion should understand that this would also pave the way for power upgrades for the wall.

    Suggestion Reason:

    A lot of players (myself included) tend to believe in the value of high level walls. This is great except that the present system is clunky and I believe that the reason why this is so is because walls magically and instantly respawn following any given battle no matter how many times they are over-run.

    As such my intention is to provide players with a glimpse of revamped walls with greater scope on the battlefield - at a cost - and this thread is about the cost.

    However its not all gloom and doom for this suggestion. Think of the usefulness this will have for:

    • Pillaging Inactive Players (the walls weakening)

    • Occupying Players with less stingy rebellions (less reliance on walls to do the fighting for them)

    • Cheaper walls will be easier to maintain - and this is the balance that players will also have to strike in investing in that level 45 wall.


    Players actively on the losing side of a conflict will likely turn off active repair mode at 60% capability since it gets more expensive to get it repaired quicker to a higher level when the threat of total wall destruction is still a likelihood. Players may also tend to partially repair walls and let the stonemasons naturally regenerate the highest level functionality of the wall (for economic reasons).

    Render/Image/Screenshot:

    Do you have a picture/render/screenshot of what it might look like? A visual aide always helps an idea come to life.

    No screenshot but as usual I can describe it.

    Lets say that a town with typical level 35 walls gets involved in a dispute.

    A level 35 wall enjoys:

    • 1850 hp
    • 140 Armour &
    • 400 Attack Damage


    Following the first total breach the values are modified to:

    • 1665 hp
    • 112 Armour &
    • 320 Attack Damage


    Following the second total breach:

    • 1480 hp
    • 84 Armour &
    • 240 Attack Damage


    Following the forth total breach (and every breach beyond this):

    • 1110 hp
    • 28 Armour &
    • 80 Attack Damage


    This places the wall well within the reach of battering rams and even steam giants can (slowly) pick the decimated wall apart at this level.

    Wall Status:

    Checking on the status and regeneration or repair is simply a matter of either visiting the town wall.

    Hovering on the Town Wall in the Town View screen will also reveal its damage level (eg. -20%) and a timer indicating regeneration or repair time.

    Hence mouse-over reveals:

    Town Wall (35) (-20%)
    (08:05:13 Regeneration)


    Wall Repairs:

    Repairing is automatic and it is the rate and conditions of repair that the player chooses between (gradual and free, active and resource cost, or really fast for an ambrosia cost?)

    Ambrosia Repair - A player may also choose to instead spend a token amount of ambrosia for much faster repair (x5 the speed of Repair (or x125 the speed of Regeneration) and no wood/ marble cost.

    Handling Ongoing Repairs and Further Wall Damage

    Since the player selects the rate of repair and the conditions attached, dealing with damage in the interim period is simply a matter of deducting the current repairs from the new damage*.

    If there is a remainder then the wall stays at the present level and the repair situation suffers a setback and delay.

    If the damage exceeds the repairs done thusfar then the wall level drops with less time to repair up to the previous wall level.

    (*It costs nothing to repair a wall to 20% and so attacks while a wall is at 20% have no effect on regeneration and repairs)

    Special Notes:

    If you do not like this suggestion, kindly look through the other parts before voting down. You might like the broader picture.

    As usual I am interested in suggestions for improvement. ^^


    GAME FORGE!
    Please reconsider your permanent ban practices!

    :!: Contribute to & Vote on: :!:
    (Suggestion: The lit match has been dropped. Its too late now... :thumbdown: )
  • I've always wondered the logic behind why a breach wall is suddenly repaired immediately after the battle completes. I definitely agree that there needs to be a "time to repair" added to a breached wall. That repair time would be a function of the level of the wall as well as how many stacks were breached.

    I don't agree that ambro could be used to speed up the repair process. An analogy would be that I could use ambro to speed up the reorganization of scattered troops/ships.

    Ridding Alpha of wasted resources, one pillage at a time
  • Thank you for the feedback and vote Master Blaster. :)

    In the context of this suggestion I am treating the wall sections as a single entity. If all sections are defeated in battle then they experience a drop in effectiveness. If a single wall section is left standing, then no.

    This serves to discourage the practice of using a player's walls against them (when they should be a defensive advantage) through the leaving of wall sections up. Besides, a wall is more of a very temporary niusance in any serious battle (and it shouldn't be that way).

    As regards Ambrosia - I am beginning to try to look at suggestions not only from the eyes of a player but also the eyes of those who seek to turn a profit from the game - and having more locations where a little ambrosia could provide a boost would be interesting.

    A limitation already in play above is the accelerated but not instant nature of the repair. Perhaps a further balancing factor here would be walls that are a different colour for such players who used ambrosia to repair.

    Kindly do also take a look at the Walls Suggestions Part 2 and Part 3 and let me know what you think :)


    GAME FORGE!
    Please reconsider your permanent ban practices!

    :!: Contribute to & Vote on: :!:
    (Suggestion: The lit match has been dropped. Its too late now... :thumbdown: )
  • Since this suggestion has received rather mixed feedback (not surprising considering that it was always slated to be a hard sell ;) ), I am interested in hearing voiced feedback about how they perceive the contents.

    • Would you like to see this implemented in its current form?

    • Would you like to see this implemented in a different fashion?

    • Would you not like to see this implemented unless something else is true?


    Your feedback will assist me in improving the suggestion overall. :)


    GAME FORGE!
    Please reconsider your permanent ban practices!

    :!: Contribute to & Vote on: :!:
    (Suggestion: The lit match has been dropped. Its too late now... :thumbdown: )
  • One thing I like about this is you no longer need to constantly keep breaking down walls, it'll shorten battle time and let us get more loot. I would love for this to go through, I am willing to have to rebuild my walls so I can have a little more realism in this game. This could sve people whole rounds of battling.

    Great idea.
  • Nope...
    Like so many suggestions I've been reading lately, this one comes down to the same flaw - defending is harder than attacking (less expensive, but harder) already, and this feature makes it that much harder.
    1) the wall (which is very expensive, btw) is now easier to breach
    2) everyone has to adjust to the new strength of the wall. This is a downside to defending because the difference between the attacker having one more (or less) round of mortars on the field can be very significant (but not always). The difference for the defender between having your wall broken down in 1 or 2 rounds is a huge deal, and can potentially render a battle lost for the defender in a single round.

    I have just one permanent wall in my account, and if this feature would get implemented, I would destroy that one as well.
  • @The Canadian - Thanks for the feedback :)

    Actually the walls would regenerate eventually (the higher the level the wall the longer it takes) - plus it takes a shorter time to regenerate from 20-40% than it does to regenerate from 80-100% This is intentional for the sake of balance.

    Of course players have the option of pitching resources towards repairs for a repair time 5x quicker, while ambrosia pitchers enjoy a rate 25x faster.

    @Amnesiac - I really like walls, and I do agree that they are feeble in their current form (especially considering how expensive they are).

    That being said this is one of those suggestions that have a broader vision in mind. You will notice that this is Part 1 of a set.

    Through nerfing the auto-regenerate aspect of Walls it becomes possible to pass through improvements that otherwise would be rejected as being over powered.

    E.g. (1) - 10% Wall's armour bonus to all ground units (including those who fill a breach) for as long as the wall stands.
    E.g. (2) - Applying wall damage to multiple targets depending on level.

    Yes the wall can still be taken down but it would deal more damage in the time taken to drop it. Furthermore initial unit survivability increases.

    Of course I am sure that there are other ways to inprove this suggestion and I eagerly await to hear any that you might have (the possibilities are not few). :)


    GAME FORGE!
    Please reconsider your permanent ban practices!

    :!: Contribute to & Vote on: :!:
    (Suggestion: The lit match has been dropped. Its too late now... :thumbdown: )
  • this definitely gives more realism to this game mechanic
    and even though gives more advantages to the attackers, It will only be appreciable in big battles and wars
    since in more than one occasion multiple big battles have been fought in the same city
  • Thank you for the feedback and for giving this thread another lease of life Darik. :)

    Yes this is one of those suggestions that involve a difficult sell. Nobody likes to see walls become 'weaker' but what some voters may not realize is that the type of change described here would not only add that little bit of realism to make walls less... ubiquitous, but it would pave the way to justify improvements that would ultimately make walls more interesting as a defensive feature.


    GAME FORGE!
    Please reconsider your permanent ban practices!

    :!: Contribute to & Vote on: :!:
    (Suggestion: The lit match has been dropped. Its too late now... :thumbdown: )
  • This is by far the least popular of the wall adjustment suggestions proposed.

    To those who didn't like this idea - I would like to hear more feedback. Do you see it as simply a nerf or as a necessary adjustment by which other more positive features might become justified? Or do you perhaps appreciate the greater degree of realism posed?

    Your feedback could help to improve any shortcomings that might exist in the suggestion. :)


    GAME FORGE!
    Please reconsider your permanent ban practices!

    :!: Contribute to & Vote on: :!:
    (Suggestion: The lit match has been dropped. Its too late now... :thumbdown: )
  • Hopla wrote:

    Once a suggestion is approved, it gets 90 days to be discussed. If your idea is very well received by the Ikariam community and players feels it is merited, then it will be moved to the Reported Suggestions forum. For a suggestion to get into the Reported section, the suggestion must receive more than 80% upvotes, minimum 12 out of 15 votes, after 90 days of being active.

    [jake]This suggestion has been open for over 90 days, and hasn't received the required feedback to be moved up to the Reported Suggestion forum. Thank you all for voting. Thread closed! :)[/jake]