Alternative Building to the Pirate Fortress - Town Gardens

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    • Alternative Building to the Pirate Fortress - Town Gardens

      Do you like this suggestion? 50
        Yes (48) 96%
        No (2) 4%
      General Information:
      Not many players use piracy, and this building space could be used more effectively with an alternate building. The look of a pirate fortress also does not fit with the architecture of the city that well (IMO).

      What are you suggesting?
      I would like an alternate 'building', called 'Town Gardens' to be able to be built on the site.
      For each level, +10 happiness to the city. Max of 40 levels.
      The building would be upgraded with building material, marble, crystal and wine, in a similar way to the depot.
      Justification - crystal: as glasshouses need building, wine: as the gardens provide added happiness.

      To unlock the building option, there could be a new research called 'Horticulture' between Bureaucracy and Utopia in the Economy field, at around 180k research points.

      How will it change the interface/gameplay/battles/system?
      The black flag for an empty Pirate fortress building space would be black on the top half, white on the bottom. (White representing the gardens).
      When the space is selected, both of these building options are now shown as options to build.

      Suggestion Reason:
      Lack of interest in Piracy for many players, and the added town satisfaction and aesthetics.
      This alternative gives a moderate benefit for not taking part in piracy, but it is not better than winning piracy (top 50).

      Special Notes:
      Later options for the gardens could also be added, like assigning citizens as gardeners for an added benefits, or giving options to affect the decorations of the city.
      Yrael, 8th Bright Shiner

      Guardian of the Republic
      Knight Republic Alliance (KOR): World Alpha
      For Life

      The post was edited 2 times, last by -Hera-: Added required research. ().

    • Added Info on Garden aesthetics

      Before Piracy:
      Current Flag:

      I would like the new gardens to have 2 different ground levels, as the island as two of them, and to keep some of the trees (as shown above). The garden would also be paved, have benches (similar to currently in the city) and new plants, and maybe a terrace and steps down between the two heights. There could also be a low stone wall around the garden and an ornate bridge connecting the island to rest of the city. A path (in line with Town Hall levels) could also be put in, linking the current path end by the 'favours amphitheatre' to the bridge.

      As for the flag, it could be changed to black and green stripes, or to a new colour such as purple.
      Yrael, 8th Bright Shiner

      Guardian of the Republic
      Knight Republic Alliance (KOR): World Alpha
      For Life

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Yrael: Added colour changes for the flag ().

    • D3_DARTS wrote:

      I like the esthetics of it - but by adding happiness you are impacting wine negatively as a resource, something the museum already does in part.
      True, it wouldn't be used as a continuous RSS like in the tavern, but a lot of wine would be needed in the upgrading of the gardens, just like a lot of sulphur is needed to upgrade the depot. (Upgrading the gardens is modelled off the depot upgrades).
      Yrael, 8th Bright Shiner

      Guardian of the Republic
      Knight Republic Alliance (KOR): World Alpha
      For Life
    • Would the person who voted 'No' be willing to explain why they did so? And maybe offer any amendments that would change their mind?
      I'm not having a go at them, I'm just wondering why players would be against this change.
      Yrael, 8th Bright Shiner

      Guardian of the Republic
      Knight Republic Alliance (KOR): World Alpha
      For Life
    • That was me. I am planning only wine cities, so obviously, anything that negates my strategy in whole or in part I would reject. I'll sell less wine if you add features that diminish the need for it; You did answer that in part to be fair, but it would need to be very expensive in wine to upgrade and long term it still leaves me an uneasy feeling because it reduces the need for my primary - and only - resource. Again, love the idea aesthetically, but could the gardens not have some other function?
    • D3_DARTS - That makes sense, I can understand you not wanting the need for wine to diminish. My aim is to make the upgrading the gardens with wine very expensive, like the amount of sulphur needed to upgrade the depot. Only larger players will be able to amass these levels of RSS required, and these large players also need all the wine (for taverns) that they can get, so I don't see this reducing the amount of wine required.

      If anything I see it increasing demand for wine as it allows more ways for wine to be spent, and I don't think it will diminish use in the tavern as these large players need all the happiness they can get. Fair enough if you think it will diminish wine need, but IMO I think demand would increase.

      As for other garden functions, I am mostly leaving those open (for now) and just saying they could potentially be added in the future. So this gives more opportunities for the cities to expand. Maybe assigning citizens like we do in temples for some of the happiness benefit (say +5 from building and +5 from extra space for assigning citizens), or some other benefit. I was also considering the gardens giving you the options to add small decorations to your city. I'm open to suggestions on this! :)
      Yrael, 8th Bright Shiner

      Guardian of the Republic
      Knight Republic Alliance (KOR): World Alpha
      For Life

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Yrael: Added other gardens function ().

    • I'm going to have to agree with Yrael on this one, incredible, I know ^^
      Anyhow, for this idea to work the research would have to be dead last, allowing this in the earlygame would reduce the need of warehouses to protect your wine way too much. Now to go with this the value of this building would have to rather small. If it pass the fortress in possible value it will be considered overpowered. I can hold a top 10 on more or less any server with minimal investment in ambro. The payout of this averages 400k ress per city every 4 weeks. That reduced to hours is roughly 600 ress and hour. This is barely anything, and the happiness to wine ratio is skyhigh in the lategame. This means that for this building to balance out, it would have to reward way less than happiness equaling 600 happiness. Now determining lategame is hard, but I'd suggest the value is somewhere around 1 wine to 1.5 happiness. This makes the value of the fort 900 happiness an hour assuming top 10.
      Now I'm not shure 400 happiness (44% of the fort) is a fair number. It find it way too close to the value of the fort of which requires large investments in both premium currency and time to pay off. Though as I said, I do agree that we need a new building on the field. We just have to consider is well first.
    • Wow, Abeged and myself in agreement! :D

      We could amend the happiness benefit to +8 per level, so that the Gardens are (320/900 =) 36% as good as the fort. That would be fine with me, as now the gardens (at their highest level) are only worth about a third of a good finish in piracy.

      Research cost: I originally suggested around 180k RP required (under the economy section), so it is not used in the earlier stages, but we could push this to say 400k to ensure it is the last research before the future researches, and ensuring it is only used in the late game.
      Yrael, 8th Bright Shiner

      Guardian of the Republic
      Knight Republic Alliance (KOR): World Alpha
      For Life
    • Maybe change the piratefortress to a kind of wall against ships?

      Like the wall for the land units? it will bring positive things to everybody ^^ protection against naval attacks if you are a builder, and a help to defend your port if you are a warrior!
    • The previous suggestion wasn't thought through and clearly weren't done by a person with suficient experience in naval combat. Now I won't spoil how to set up a naval composition that litterally ruins the fun in naval warfare here, but this is possible and combining it with a fortress will only make it worse. To add to this only ballons can hit the first-hit line, and the fort would therefore remove one of the highest sources of gs loss.

      Also I never defend own harbors. If you're agressive you won't need any defence. Often times no wall is even better than a wall.
      A suggestion for another building should have another thread though. I can sit here all day explaining how combat mechanics interact so this thread would quickly get crowded.
    • Anything that diminishes the impact of Piracy on the game is a good thing in my book. The introduction of Piracy had players leaving the game in droves simply because it provided an easy platform for a form of "cheating." Most (not all) strong players in piracy have multiple "feeder" accounts which they coerce or bribe into helping them reach the top 50. While technically not breaking rules (except maybe those who use ip masking and run the "feeder" accounts themselves) it does come off as cheap.

      That aside, for a lot of players the Pirate Fortress is built simply because they have the land plot and nothing else to put there, and building the fortress will increase total score. The missions are weak, and provide only a mild gold benefit for time invested, so the building is only really of any use to those who want to complete in the larger reward.

      With regards to this "Gardens" idea, it might be worth considering a similar system, but without the greater reward.

      The building levels should provide a small percentage buff to existing happiness levels, rather than a static reward, as this would encourage players to utilize all the existing methods of raising happiness rather than detracting from them. Additionally, as per the pirate mission system, time could be invested in cultivating the gardens, but with a short term happiness buff reward.

      This should lessen the impact the Gardens would have on the wine trade (which should placate Darts), as the buff would be temporary, but repeatable with more time invested. Additionally, this could allow for a similar trade off the warehouse had when the supply dump was introduced (1 lvl for every 4) as Moosebabes requested.

      As Abeged suggested, the tech should be late game, probably after Utopia would be ideal as early game doesn't really have a needs for additional happiness, while large scale empires require a heavy investment in it. In that regard, it might be worth considering a Town Hall level minimum before the Gardens can be built.

      Just my thoughts, anyway - let me know what you think.

      Raider Philosophy: "I steal stuff to build more ships to steal stuff with. Wood doesn't grow on trees"
    • @Wyr3d - I also like the idea of a percentage buff, and then the levels can increase the maximum buff by 1% every 4 levels, so at level 40 the gardens base happiness buff would be 10%, then maybe get another 5% by completing a task similar to the current pirate runs (regardless of the level of the gardens). Just getting the suggestion down in numbers!

      I would definitely keep it late game, I suggested making it the research before the futures, so at 400k research points to ensure that it is one of the last benefits unlocked. Town hall level limit is not a good mechanic to add, and I think the high research cost would be enough to limit it to the late game.
      Yrael, 8th Bright Shiner

      Guardian of the Republic
      Knight Republic Alliance (KOR): World Alpha
      For Life