Controversial "Cheap" Moves: Asking for Veteran Fighters' Opinions

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  • Controversial "Cheap" Moves: Asking for Veteran Fighters' Opinions

    In light of recent events(war full of trash talking), I would want to hear the community's opinion on several controversial moves/strategies in Ikariam wars/battles.

    KEEP IN MIND:
    First of all, my definition of a veteran fighter is someone who is confident in their skills in the art of war. So, even if you are new, you are welcome to comment. But I would like to know what the "unwritten codes" are.
    Secondly, I'd like to avoid trash talking. I'll define it here: "insulting or boastful speech intended to demoralize, intimidate, or humiliate someone, especially an opponent in an athletic contest."
    ~~~~~~

    These are the topics:

    COLOSSUS:

    Using the Colossus miracle to scatter 10-100% of the units fighting on your towns. Only usable when defending.

    AMBRO WARPING:
    Putting land troops and navy ships into a town(mobile or not) then using Town Relocation to move the town next to the target town.

    SLOW BOAT:
    Sending navy ships to enemy towns from far away to be able to make sure that the target town won't be able to Ambro Warp. It also serves as smokescreen as the military adviser will be permanently red.

    Vacation Mode to Scatter Troops and to Avoid War.
    Using Vacation Mode as a Colossus.

    Defending Enemy Port or Town:
    Avoiding battles by defending your enemies town so that they cannot be attacked and will be safe.

    Attacking a players when they are offline:
    Extremely self-explanatory.


    I humbly ask that if you will reply on this thread, to be more comprehensible, mention which topic you are talking about.
    My goal for this post is for me, personally, to know what other players think of these and also, hopefully, others hear others' opinions as well and actually consider them.

    ~I'll include my opinions on each subject on the first reply to this thread.

  • My opinions:

    COLOSSUS:

    Totally fine with this. It's a miracle. Just like forge and Poseidon, it gives an advantage to the overall outcome of the war.
    Exception would be if someone called out for a HoF or a 1v1 battle without using colossus AND THEN used Colossus. That would be messed up.

    AMBRO WARPING:
    A premium feature. It's a paid advantage. It's part of the game so I'm okay with it. However, I do think that players that don't use this are pretty cool.
    It's not without its cons though. If you ambro warp your battle mobile, you can get it stuck their because of slow boats, which leads to:

    SLOW BOAT:
    I'm okay with this. It's only purpose is it stops ambro town relocation.
    Someone recently told me it was cheap. I would like to hear others' opinion on this.

    Vacation Mode to Scatter Troops and to Avoid War.
    I think this is cheap.

    Defending Enemy Port or Town:
    I see this as a fair counter to the next one:

    Attacking a players when they are offline:
    I think this is solid strategy. Why else would there be a spy mission to check the online status? Unless of course if players had a beforehand agreement that they won't.

  • i would like to share my thoughts about Using "COLOSSUS". Because some players were always whining about colossus users as cowards.. but it's actually not..
    Every player have different style of playing. We are all given freedom to choose which miracle to take and build a town..
    Selecting Colossus as a miracle does not give you an unfair advantage against any player.
    I will give a basic example:
    1. Say Player A and Player B have they same number of towns.. Each of Them have 7 towns.
    ----if player A choose 7 hephaistos island while Player B Choose 4 Hephaistos and 3 Colossus. i would say that they are still fair. (assuming all are lvl 5 miracle)
    ---Why?.. Player A invests all of his attributes for attack type, so expectedly, he will have forge activated all the time. While Player B Invests some of his attributes to an attack type and some other investments on defense type attributes.. He cannot activate his miracle all the time, but he got stronger defence due to his colossus..
    --All miracles were created fairly... Everyone have freedom to choose ,to suit the game style of a player..
    ----
    P.S.: Exception: if players were fighting in a duel and have agreed to a condition not to use colossus,,..
    -war is fun if you're not in the actual ground.
    -raczide (ign)- Not Anubis Diplomat
    (PS:only playing at world Hephaistos others are just copycat)

  • Colossus

    Is a miracle which we all know. When you build your towns you have to think what’s the best way to set up. Some people like Poseidon (navy and piracy players). Some like unlimited forge for war. Athena for safety. Hey could even use gardens if you fight a lot. So when you set up your towns you have a decision to make. So using colossus and being set up to use colossus is part of the game and being set up. I think using it is very smart and can slay battles. Means small players can have a chance of defending themselves to. I don’t normally have it personally in my perm towns. But make sure I have one close to me so I can plant a mobile and go use it.

    If a gentleman’s agreement for a fight has been made. Using it is abit of a punch to the balls. The defender always has advantage of changing the battle field size with garrison. However maybe said ‘rules’ should be discussed before hand.

    Ambro warping

    Great surprise attack, however again it’s about being set up. If you have high hideouts then they can’t find your army. Then they are just having shots in the dark wasting money. It can be a massive advantage but I think this one is up to the defender as much as the guy warping. Unless he warps to 7 locations but still he would have to hit each town. 30 mins per town at least. Depending if he’s on the island or not. So yeah no problem as such.

    Slowboating

    This is very viet. Any people who played when VN alliances was on every server in mass numbers will know they loved to slow boat. I think it’s smart. I guess the problem is when they slow boat from multis. Don’t piticulaly like that. Multis shouldn’t be used in this way. As that’s gaining an advantage from it which in definition isn’t aloud. But nothing GOs can do about that one. I will do this if the other team starts it first. Isn’t my go to strat. It’s abit low. I remember VN doing it to me for a week and my god it wasn’t nice.

    Vocation mode

    No problem with it. If you have no chance why give away free points. I see this as changing government to scatter your troops or asking someone to free garrison so you scatter. Smart escape. What I don’t like if people see you coming on there multis and go v mode. Kinda see that as cheating. Or a low style play.

    Defending people’s port

    Yeah against this. I believe spy reports don’t show defenders either which has to be a game bug? All troops in the town should be shown. Could be wrong but yeah. If you can spy and see them I’m fine with it. If not completely against. Using game bugs to help you hide.

    Attacking players whilst they are offline

    Oh 100% all over this. Why would I not take advantage of a sitting duck. Learn there time zone and hit them when they least expect it. If they can’t put there army in a town which is safe that’s not on me.

    I played navy a couple of servers back and I hit Poseidon and hit everyone of this players towns within 4 hours to find his ships. I knew he wasn’t online early. Took full advantage. Stopped my spying problem too haha.

  • Right then, my opinions, please note of course these are just what I think:

    Colossus, I'm in agreement with everybody else who has posted. It is a feature of the game, it was put in to be used and I see no reason to not use it. I have a permanent colossus town and take advantage of it when I need to. Sure it's annoying when somebody does it to you, but perhaps that'll teach you to wave your troops and not send them all in one block! Irritates me when people complain about this.

    Ambro warping, meh, well if you really want to kill somebody that bad that you're willing to pay money for it, go for it. I mean yeah it is a bit of a cheap trick but as was mentioned if they don't know where your troops are in the first place they can't really use this.

    Slow boating, personally not a fan of this, not something I would do unless the target truly deserved it. It just decreases the quality of the game for both players as almost inevitably whoever is being slowboated does it back to the first person and at which point you might as well both call it off. I'd be unhappy to see this used on a large scale. Perhaps a one off to hide your real attack when your alliance is about to stage a big fight, but not routinely.

    Vacation mode. No absolutely not, I lose respect for anybody who uses this. It is a feature designed to protect people when they go on holiday for a week, not because somebody wants to take the cowards way out. If you're in such a bad situation that you need to use vacation mode, you should just take it on the chin, accept your defeat and learn from it and how you managed to get into such a mess in the first place. The white flag exists for a reason. Using VM to dodge war is not what it was designed for and if you're trying to avoid war you should probably question why you're playing Ikariam and not simcity...

    Defending enemy port/town, no issue with this, go for it, I'll know when your troops return to your town so I can time my army to arrive seconds later. And I get to see your full composition beforehand, not to mention having how ever many hours to prepare. I honestly think this is a bad strategy to use in the first place

    Attacking people offline, what you mean my signature move? ;) Absolutely fine, that's why you can spy if people are online or not. Besides, if somebody is online a battle should never last more than 2 rounds, because if somebody is losing they should retreat straight away. So to be honest killing people offline is the only way you'll fully wipe them.


    Of course if people are fighting 1 vs 1 then they can set up whatever conditions they like, I personally will fight as sneaky as I can

  • why you tag me:-)

    Well i am known like "last mohicans", "hater" of big ambro players with much ipsharing and boots..i represent " one acount fighters and think that you are killed a game, but maybe some interest my answers..100% isnt, but ok haha..

    COLOSSUS
    Most powerfull weapon in war, against good big ambro players..I like him on 4ivl..Half enemy i killed in my town, second half i spy fleet movement and kick him in second of homeback..its usually minimum 4rounds positive damage, in war very important.
    However, i know that big ambro players is very angry on GO because that "bug" with name of Colossus haha... or, i can defend with 5k generals against 50k? :)
    Colossus is only thing which is lefted for fairly player, and GO give permission for leeching almost all by bots and multis...if GO want from fairly player to build " safe island", they will never be...shame never end

    AMBROWARPING
    Against, of course. But, against fairly good players in war, behind good walls and cooks outside, mostly unuseles.

    SLOWBOATING
    Any action against ambroplayers is welcome for me. So, long life Vietnamese :)

    VACATION
    Like Ambrowarping. No need for that, if you have good land units organisation in your town.

    DEFENDING TOWN
    For me, its like bug. Its like when someone spying you from IP share account.. Crimi work, but GO give that permission.

    ATACKING IN OFF STATUS
    Always..its only way, for positive damage, against fairly good player behind good walls.

    All in all, thanks for tag and congrat for try to live board.
    Hope, in future, that big ambro players and IP share players, will decide that next server we will play more fairly...im scare, that this one is last..nobody want play because thems, and be food for thems.

    What win is, if is on that way, il never understand and never understand that player like me is quite and just live a game :(

  • i am completely fine with all strategys you mentioned cause thats all part of the game and they are all legal
    but i am not fine with any help someone is getting from multi in any way, shape or form during war
    in last few years i have seen a lot of players complaining about having a war with players with stronger ts
    i think thats the main problem in game. People usually complain about things and they give up before they even try anything but from those situations they will get knowledge and experience in game and with that they can easyly compete with stronger ts accs even if they have 5x less ts
    this game is really easy fight until you have positive dmg and give up when you dont have
    during night you can hide your army, send it somewhere or simply move your cooks to other town and you wont have to worry about negative dmg and losing the war
    and last thing. In war you will always have better chance fighting with few good mates rather then having big alliance full of noob

  • JOSH wrote:

    In light of recent events(war full of trash talking), I would want to hear the community's opinion on several controversial moves/strategies in Ikariam wars/battles.

    KEEP IN MIND:
    First of all, my definition of a veteran fighter is someone who is confident in their skills in the art of war. So, even if you are new, you are welcome to comment. But I would like to know what the "unwritten codes" are.
    Secondly, I'd like to avoid trash talking. I'll define it here: "insulting or boastful speech intended to demoralize, intimidate, or humiliate someone, especially an opponent in an athletic contest."
    ~~~~~~

    These are the topics:

    COLOSSUS:

    Using the Colossus miracle to scatter 10-100% of the units fighting on your towns. Only usable when defending.

    AMBRO WARPING:
    Putting land troops and navy ships into a town(mobile or not) then using Town Relocation to move the town next to the target town.

    SLOW BOAT:
    Sending navy ships to enemy towns from far away to be able to make sure that the target town won't be able to Ambro Warp. It also serves as smokescreen as the military adviser will be permanently red.

    Vacation Mode to Scatter Troops and to Avoid War.
    Using Vacation Mode as a Colossus.

    Defending Enemy Port or Town:
    Avoiding battles by defending your enemies town so that they cannot be attacked and will be safe.

    Attacking a players when they are offline:
    Extremely self-explanatory.


    I humbly ask that if you will reply on this thread, to be more comprehensible, mention which topic you are talking about.
    My goal for this post is for me, personally, to know what other players think of these and also, hopefully, others hear others' opinions as well and actually consider them.

    ~I'll include my opinions on each subject on the first reply to this thread.

    On The Swedish server we have never seem anyone use ambro warping to attack someone! we have done the old same way and i'm happy about that :P But everything else have being used and it's so fun to see when they complaining over the slowboats and it's so frustrating when someone do it on yourself... but it's a smart tactial move :P

  • They all are features of the game and it's absolutely fine to use any of them, so I can not understand how any of them can be called as cheap. Personally I have used all of them.
    Found a bug or think something doesn't work in the game? Don't be afraid and write a ticket or PM me! :)


    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
    (c) Albert Einstein

  • JOSH wrote:

    In light of recent events(war full of trash talking), I would want to hear the community's opinion on several controversial moves/strategies in Ikariam wars/battles.

    KEEP IN MIND:
    First of all, my definition of a veteran fighter is someone who is confident in their skills in the art of war. So, even if you are new, you are welcome to comment. But I would like to know what the "unwritten codes" are.
    Secondly, I'd like to avoid trash talking. I'll define it here: "insulting or boastful speech intended to demoralize, intimidate, or humiliate someone, especially an opponent in an athletic contest."
    ~~~~~~

    These are the topics:

    COLOSSUS:

    Using the Colossus miracle to scatter 10-100% of the units fighting on your towns. Only usable when defending.

    AMBRO WARPING:
    Putting land troops and navy ships into a town(mobile or not) then using Town Relocation to move the town next to the target town.

    SLOW BOAT:
    Sending navy ships to enemy towns from far away to be able to make sure that the target town won't be able to Ambro Warp. It also serves as smokescreen as the military adviser will be permanently red.

    Vacation Mode to Scatter Troops and to Avoid War.
    Using Vacation Mode as a Colossus.

    Defending Enemy Port or Town:
    Avoiding battles by defending your enemies town so that they cannot be attacked and will be safe.

    Attacking a players when they are offline:
    Extremely self-explanatory.


    I humbly ask that if you will reply on this thread, to be more comprehensible, mention which topic you are talking about.
    My goal for this post is for me, personally, to know what other players think of these and also, hopefully, others hear others' opinions as well and actually consider them.

    ~I'll include my opinions on each subject on the first reply to this thread.
    Thanks for thinking of me!!

    All of these are effective ways to fight and assist in winning a battle or war. I only have an issue with one of these and that is using vmode to get out of a battle.

    To be more specific; I am a firm believer that this game should never supersede real life responsibilities and emergencies. In those instances, I can understand if someone needs to step away from the game as combat is about to start (or is currently happening) and utilize vmode. It’s not ideal, and I can only believe the opponent is being genuine, but completely understand. I have had to do this once when my alliance was in the middle of a huge battle. I was supplying a large chunk of the fighting forces for the battle, and my homes water heater blew, leaking water everywhere.

    If the individual does this for the sole purpose of dodging me in a battle (especially if they have already attacked me and I am just returning the favor), it does raise my blood pressure a bit.

  • COLOSSUS:
    I don't see why this would be a problem. I put people who complain about this in the same category as I leave those who complain about poseidon being unfair.

    AMBRO WARPING:
    Also completely fine with it. The most common use for it is picking people off while they are offline. Honestly, if you know you're not gonna be available for quite some time, and you can't coordinate an online general it is your own fault you're being massacred.

    SLOW BOAT:
    I absolutely despise this. The absolutely only use this has that is not just bringing down the game quality, is preventing ambro warping. Now shure, if you're playing against someone who litterally lives on a pile of gold and warps his towns 7 times a day, go for it. But if I ever recieve a slowboat it's a declaration of war, and that war will not end untill that person agrees to never send a slowboat again.

    Vacation Mode to Scatter Troops and to Avoid War.
    I don't generally have anything against this if my opponent admits it was his only way out, and calls "well played". I see going into V-Mode as an acknowledgement of defeat, and I will count it as one. It might not be seen in the total gs victory, but he will know he lost. That's good enough for me.

    Defending Enemy Port or Town:
    I have nothing against this. It is honestly a terrible strategy since it gives the account you are defending full information of your troops. All he has to do is notice where you sent them from, then when he withdraws either take him there, or space him and take him 4 hours later. The amount of fleets I've taken in the middle of the night after spacing someone from trying to use my harbor as a safe haven can't be counted on two hands.

    Attacking a players when they are offline:
    It's a real time strategy game. As I pointed out under ambro warping. If you can't coordinate a general to be online it's your fault. The general should always be online.


    Now I do believe some of these traits are region specific. I can for example say that 90% of active fighters on the danish servers will agree with me on everything I said, while just looking through this thread it is quite the opposite elsewhere.

  • Couple other things that have irritated some other players for Combat: Lend your thoughts on these..

    Giving enough notice before attacking another alliance:
    I have been on some pretty ruthless servers, and been in some very aggressive alliances where wars start at a moments notice all the time without warning. So you were always expected to be hit at any time.
    I have also seen a completely different spectrum where it was completely taboo for an alliance to not give 48 hours, and sometimes up to two weeks notice before a war is to start. I’ve even been in an alliance that would always ask the other alliance first, if they would like to fight a war.
    I don’t have an issue with any of these, but I did prefer the more aggressive and active servers. You were always wondering if you were going to get hit, and we’re constantly raiding from other players around you to build up and maintain resources for war.

    Garrison Right Treaties:
    Always a great way to hide or launch surprise attacks from. I love these things. Especially when you can find someone who will let you attack players directly from their town (although it does immediately give away your hiding spot). Most of the time I find that the Garrison Right towns are worried about retribution against them for letting you hide there.

  • Soupy2 wrote:




    Garrison Right Treaties:
    Always a great way to hide or launch surprise attacks from. I love these things. Especially when you can find someone who will let you attack players directly from their town (although it does immediately give away your hiding spot). Most of the time I find that the Garrison Right towns are worried about retribution against them for letting you hide there.
    That's what legal multies are for.

  • You are correct, you could use your multi account that way. But my understanding of the rules would mean that the accounts are interacting/supporting one another, and I thought you were not allowed to do this. I very easily could be wrong. Several rules in ikariam are vague and open to interpretation or enforcement.

    I Am not a fan of the multi account rules. I have always questioned if it “watered down” the number of active players on a server. Or was it just a way for the game designers to make it appear that a server was more full and active with members?

  • Soupy2 wrote:

    You are correct, you could use your multi account that way. But my understanding of the rules would mean that the accounts are interacting/supporting one another, and I thought you were not allowed to do this. I very easily could be wrong. Several rules in ikariam are vague and open to interpretation or enforcement.

    I Am not a fan of the multi account rules. I have always questioned if it “watered down” the number of active players on a server. Or was it just a way for the game designers to make it appear that a server was more full and active with members?
    Correct.

    What I usually do, i send my multi out and allow my alliance mates to use my multi to hit the target. My main does not participate in the combat. Especially my non alighted multi or different alliance multi acts as a good surprise for the target. It masks intentions well.

  • oracle wrote:

    Soupy2 wrote:

    You are correct, you could use your multi account that way. But my understanding of the rules would mean that the accounts are interacting/supporting one another, and I thought you were not allowed to do this. I very easily could be wrong. Several rules in ikariam are vague and open to interpretation or enforcement.

    I Am not a fan of the multi account rules. I have always questioned if it “watered down” the number of active players on a server. Or was it just a way for the game designers to make it appear that a server was more full and active with members?
    Correct.
    What I usually do, i send my multi out and allow my alliance mates to use my multi to hit the target. My main does not participate in the combat. Especially my non alighted multi or different alliance multi acts as a good surprise for the target. It masks intentions well.
    Oooooohhhhhh... I never thought of that. Very nice advice.

  • Soupy2 wrote:

    oracle wrote:

    Soupy2 wrote:

    You are correct, you could use your multi account that way. But my understanding of the rules would mean that the accounts are interacting/supporting one another, and I thought you were not allowed to do this. I very easily could be wrong. Several rules in ikariam are vague and open to interpretation or enforcement.

    I Am not a fan of the multi account rules. I have always questioned if it “watered down” the number of active players on a server. Or was it just a way for the game designers to make it appear that a server was more full and active with members?
    Correct.What I usually do, i send my multi out and allow my alliance mates to use my multi to hit the target. My main does not participate in the combat. Especially my non alighted multi or different alliance multi acts as a good surprise for the target. It masks intentions well.
    Oooooohhhhhh... I never thought of that. Very nice advice.
    me too, i have never tried that.. i only use my multi for donations... tnx for that oracle
    -war is fun if you're not in the actual ground.
    -raczide (ign)- Not Anubis Diplomat
    (PS:only playing at world Hephaistos others are just copycat)

  • Hi JOSH,
    I don't know why I got tagged, but here are my thoughts, I hope this might help

    COLOSSUS:
    Perfectly fine, I also don't have it in my perm towns as I try to get perma Forge first..
    Unless, I am really overwhelmed with enemy troops, I would use a nearby colossus to my advantage, but most of the time, I just wanna kill every last one of my enemies' troops.


    AMBRO WARPING:
    This is part of the game, their are a lot of players complaining about this, but it has its cons too as mentioned above. I sent spies to my target's town first before jumping towns, or make sure I'm at their "core".
    Our recent war in Hades with BARBS, brought up a lot of heat to us again. Ambro warping = lots of ambro = doubt = cheating. Seems like people now are tagging ambro warping to cheating, I haven't see that here in Heph but in Hades.. oh well..

    SLOW BOAT:
    I use this sometimes, but I let one of my allies do it for me, so at least my enemies focus is the one sending the slow boat. It does make a good smokescreen for your attacks.

    Vacation Mode to Scatter Troops and to Avoid War.
    This has been used since olden times, but your enemies will make you a laughing stock on the board.. I prefer not to use them, and I don't like going vmode. I'd rather use government change if I wanna scatter my troops.

    Defending Enemy Port or Town:
    I hate this one, but does come in handy when battling in enemies' core islands. If your the one chasing, make sure you don't occupy the town/s he came from so he does not scatter. Spy spy spy, this is your best strat in intercepting your enemy

    Attacking a players when they are offline:
    I love killing troops while their master is away, and picturing his disappointment when he gets online and find his troops murdered. LOL
    I thought this was a solid strat ever since I've been playing the game, but I still hear a lot of excuses from players here in Heph and Hades about attacks when they are offline.

    Also the age old wisdom of separating cooks from your main troops before going offline is flawed. If you have seen our war in Hades (SKULL vs BARBS). I have killed 2 player with all of their MS while they are offline (one had 14k while the other had 25k) and no cooks / tenders. It's all about timing and waving, making sure your enemy does not scatter from the fight.