Banned for no reason

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  • Banned for no reason

    So, I'm playing on Hephaistos. I just failed to log in because I'm banned for pushing. Just to make things clear - I am not aware of breaching any rules, and I'm 99% sure I didnt. I have no multis, so I just don't understand what might have caused the ban.

    Now I'm wondering - is it possible that at some point someone could have sent me something like, i don't know, 500 wood without me noticing, and then report me and get me banned? My common sens tells me that this idea is insane, something like that would be easily abusable, so I rule that out.

    Do you have any idea what might cause a ban for a player that really played nice and clean, for real?

    Is there any chance I would receive any compensation if this was all a mistake? I mean, after investing my time in this game I can be put on gold whenever someone feels like it and not receive any compensation if it turns out to be a mistake, than I surely must be insane to keep playing without any assurance that my account won't be banned for no reason at all in the future.
  • Banned for no reason

    So, I'm playing on Hephaistos. I just failed to log in because I'm banned for pushing. Just to make things clear - I am not aware of breaching any rules, and I'm 99% sure I didnt. I have no multis, so I just don't understand what might have caused the ban.

    Now I'm wondering - is it possible that at some point someone could have sent me something like, i don't know, 500 wood without me noticing, and then report me and get me banned? My common sens tells me that this idea is insane, something like that would be easily abusable, so I rule that out.

    Do you have any idea what might cause a ban for a player that really played nice and clean, for real?

    Is there any chance I would receive any compensation if this was all a mistake? I mean, after investing my time in this game I can be put on hold whenever someone feels like it and not receive any compensation if it turns out to be a mistake, than I surely must be insane to keep playing without any assurance that my account won't be banned for no reason at all in the future.
  • It is an underhanded trick but I have seen it used many times. A smaller player will send you resources for no apparent reason and then shortly thereafter you get banned. I keep a close eye on everything coming into my towns now. Nowadays, if resources are sent to me from a smaller account, I immediately send them back and pillage that account until they quit the game. Underhanded crap like this gets under my skin almost as much as multi-account abuse.
    Num-nums!
  • Hello Mertberg,


    First of all, I would like to bring your attention to our Board rules:


    Discussion of warnings or bans is not permitted anywhere on the boards.

    An appropriate member of the Team should be contacted in such cases.

    Please, if you need clarification of ban, contact our Ikariam support. We will be happy to explain your ban.
    Discussing a ban on boards can lead you to fall under disciplinary measures from our Board team.


    Kind regards,
    MrSniperZ

    Game Operator

  • Vergry wrote:

    It is an underhanded trick but I have seen it used many times. A smaller player will send you resources for no apparent reason and then shortly thereafter you get banned. I keep a close eye on everything coming into my towns now. Nowadays, if resources are sent to me from a smaller account, I immediately send them back and pillage that account until they quit the game. Underhanded crap like this gets under my skin almost as much as multi-account abuse.
    In that case, I suggest you to report that player.

  • Ok, I wont discus the ban, but I would like to discus the pushing rule. Any similarity with my case is a mere coincidence.

    As I understand it, any rule, regardles of it being a criminal law or a browser game rule has to be interpreted in it's spirit, not in it's letter. You can read more on the matter by searching it on the internet.

    So, the pushing rule was intended to prevent players from gaining an unfair advantage be having more accounts or having other people helping him, with the intent to grow his main account faster.
    If the rule was breached I think the admins/game operators must check ans see whether it was a simple mistake or an intentional unfair trade made in order to help the higher points account.

    Now, how could, lets say 1000 resources between 2 accounts, represent a breach of the rule that must be punished? In a server where 1000 resources dont represent much anymore, with the accounts close or over 100.000 points.

    Even more, why does the pushing rule punish the smaller account? If two people agree to trade 1000 marble for crystal, and the smaller account sends the resources, but the higher one forgets to do so, where is the culpability of the smaller account.

    I can only suspect the rule says the smaller acount has to report the higher one for not doing his part of the deal. But such a rule is not fair, as it imposes an obligation for a player to actively monitor other players activity. Maybe you forget, maybe you dont log in for 2 days and come back to see the guy with whom you agreed to trade hasnt sent you the resources and you get banned. The only thing one can do in this situation is to send a message to the guy and remind him he has to send the resources. But when will one decide its getting late? 6 hours before the 48h limit? 12? What if the guy does not log in in taht time frame? You get banned for someone elses inaction, omision?

    In real life this is like buying something from someone and after paying the money, because the seller didnt send you the good, you both get equally punished.

    Getting back to the interpretation of the rule in it's spirit - when a red flag pops up for a 1k trade where one part didnt seend back the resources, arent the adims supposed to make an inquiry and see if the breach is really meant to be an unfair help from a smaller account to a higher one, or a mere mistake?
    Because if they arent, and the ban is automatically aplied to both acounts even dor a difference of 1 resource, then the rule is absurd.

    More than that, it means one has no guarantee his account is safe, since mistakes can aleays be made. We invest time and get punished for things like this?

    There should be a big line between a difference of 1k in resources between 2 old accounts that have no connection at all, and a blatant breach where one gets hundreds of free k in resources. If punish them both, equally, then you have to rethink the rules you impose on players.
  • As police officers must follow country law, Game Operators must force Game rules published by Gameforge.


    Regarding sending resources in purpose to ban higher account : we deeply investigate that cases and intervene.


    If we detect unintentionally unfair trade, we issue a warning.

  • So, how would you call a trade of 1000 resources between 2 accounts of about 100.000 points, where the bigger account forgets to send the resources?

    Do you think this would be somethin punishable by a ban or a warning would suffice?
  • All of you are correct in every aspect and the truth is in the middle. Please, let me say something:



    Mertberg wrote:

    is it possible that at some point someone could have sent me something like, i don't know, 500 wood without me noticing, and then report me and get me banned? My common sens tells me that this idea is insane

    Yes, your common sense is right.
    No, it is not possible to receive a ban for this, unless there was a similar situation in the past, involving same account.
    Game operators always warn the sender first time it happens. And 500 wood is not a big benefit to worth a ban. Yet, the receiver has to send the 500 wood back according to the rules, but no ban will be placed before a warning.




    Mertberg wrote:

    Do you have any idea what might cause a ban for a player that really played nice and clean, for real?

    As MrSniperZ already said bans are not discussed here, but on ticket system. Besides the fact that private info has to be revealed to clear the case and in a pushing case at least 2 players are involved not only the one complaining, this is not the place to discuss it. Even IF someone pushed you, maybe he does not agree to put his name here and we have to respect that.

    As you could see I didn't disclosed any info about you I only discussed an imaginary "what if" case.



    Vergry wrote:

    It is an underhanded trick but I have seen it used many times.

    As I said before, t does not happen first time without a warning.



    Vergry wrote:

    I keep a close eye on everything coming into my towns now.

    That's very good, because if you report it only the sender will be banned.



    Mertberg wrote:

    any rule, regardles of it being a criminal law or a browser game rule has to be interpreted in it's spirit, not in it's letter

    It's a simple rule, it's mathematics, it's not complicated to calculate resources sent from both sides.
    The only catch here is that a trade must be completed in 48 hours. This means that you cannot keep the resources for one month and return them later.
    Why? Simply because you cannot prove anything outside the 7 days you can see in your town advisor.
    If a player complains after 2 weeks or a month that he sent you 10k of resources and wants them back how can you prove he was right? You cannot see it. This can lead to disputes and wars. Asking us is out of the question, we are not allowed to intervene to solve player disputes. You have to see it with your own eyes.

    We can help you, advise you, warn you, enforce game rules if necessary, but we cannot intervene in the game.



    Mertberg wrote:

    If the rule was breached I think the admins/game operators must check ans see whether it was a simple mistake or an intentional unfair trade made in order to help the higher points account.

    Even in that case, especially in that case, you have to submit a ticket because there you can request a second opinion from another game staff. You are advantaged by sending the ticket.
  • Mertberg,

    Its no important is you clean player or not,nobody care. You are quilty in start :)

    In future, my advices is:
    Let Josh and Pepi to buy you warp for all towns like Razcide and Eijipe, to fill safe islands.
    Second, you must troll on board against me, Baltazar, Valentin, Juggalo and all players which are not "chosen clan".
    Third, you must stole on new server nicknames Raven, Baltazar, Valentin etc..

    If you will finish all three steps, you can be even Elite member of board or game :)
  • mostarac wrote:

    Mertberg,

    Its no important is you clean player or not,nobody care. You are quilty in start :)

    In future, my advices is:
    Let Josh and Pepi to buy you warp for all towns like Razcide and Eijipe, to fill safe islands.
    Second, you must troll on board against me, Baltazar, Valentin, Juggalo and all players which are not "chosen clan".
    Third, you must stole on new server nicknames Raven, Baltazar, Valentin etc..

    If you will finish all three steps, you can be even Elite member of board or game :)
    What? Just to point out.

    1. You can't buy warp for other players in game.
    2. I'm pretty sure trolling isn't allowed wherever.
    3. I don't think being an Elite member in the board has anything to do with it. :)
  • baltazar is banned because trolling, why you members isnt?? They trolled 5times more then Baltazar..

    New server?? Raven, Baltazar, Valentin..all nicknames is stolen by someone in start war server..

    It will be nice, that you like Elite member say, that is not correct..
    Or it is ok:-)
    Like NANBS love to say: Rules is rules:-)
  • MrsniperZ, Im sorry to push this further. Again, I will abstain from discussing the ban, but I will ask some more questions regarding the rules.

    In my ticket I am not told what exactly is the action that broke the rule. I am just said I sent resources to a higher player. You draw a paralel to police officers applying the law. How would it be for you to get arrested because you broke a specific law without any other explanation, like when did you broke the la, where, by which action, what are the proofs, etc.

    By the second replay I got in my ticket it seems it's not about that trade of 1k, but another one.

    So I ask the Go's and the community: if 2 players agree to a trade, but the time frame between the moment each player receives his resources is greater that 48 hours, is it still pushing?

    Example: A and B agree to exchange 10.000 wine for 10.000 sulphur. The distance between the 2 is 10 hours. A, the bigger player sends first the 10k wine. B sends the sulphur the next day. 9 h into the jurney B notices the port of player A is blockaded, so he pulls back his ships - another 9 h jurney back. B has to slepp and work, so he sends the sulphur again the next day (2 days from the moment he received the wine). After another 10 h jurney the ships Finally arive and complete the trade, 1 to 1 ratio. If the go's find that inbetween more that 48 hours have passed - is ther a breach of the pushing rule? If yes, is it worth a ban? If yes, do you thibk that is fair? Is that creating an advantage for any player?

    Again, this is not my case, Im just speculating, as I havent been given the exact reason for my ban.


    P.S. Pepi, arre you the same guy from NASH?
  • @Antikythera

    With respect,
    Account is not stolen. Just, nicknames from server before. In my case, Raven, townname Mostarac ( my board account )..Other players which want be active on board, also is stolen..
    Of course, rules is rules, everything ok:-)

    We will not reported that things, we are here only for fun, but sometimes we must say what some players do here.

    Regards
  • Can anyone answer my questins?

    Is there a way to complain on the way a ticket is being handled? I simply cant underdstand how you can get a ban and not be informed on what you did exactly.

    Anyone bothers to give a chance to a player by double checking? Does anyone bother to properly explain where's the wrongdoing? I submited the ticket 11 hours ago and all I got to know is that I sent resources to a higher account. Which Im sure as hell I didnt. The only posibillity is that the timeframe between trades was slightly more than 48 hours.